xp to shakey:
yeah lots of ppl I spoke to in india had read it, noticed the fountainhead in lots of roadside stalls, and it did seem to be well-known. poss just sheltered from rand in europe and maybe india is just more in sync w/ the US, or maybe a fad, but it was a bit of a thing.
― ogmor, Friday, 13 August 2010 16:14 (fourteen years ago) link
any high school teacher who makes The Fountainhead a requirement ought to be fired.
no way. anything that inspires thought/discussion/argument is a-ok to read circa high school.
― a CRASBO is a "criminally related" ASBO (contenderizer), Friday, 13 August 2010 16:32 (fourteen years ago) link
ie i don't think she really understood capitalism. capital is not 'heroic'
and i dunno, her heroicization of fat cats doesn't make less sense of marx's heroicization of the worker
― a CRASBO is a "criminally related" ASBO (contenderizer), Friday, 13 August 2010 16:34 (fourteen years ago) link
― a CRASBO is a "criminally related" ASBO (contenderizer), Friday, August 13, 2010 12:32 PM (2 minutes ago)
high school is far too short and there are waaaayyyy too many books that are actually good to spend time making teenagers read The Fountainhead.
― karl...arlk...rlka...lkar..., Friday, 13 August 2010 16:36 (fourteen years ago) link
working isn't heroic either!
― goole, Friday, 13 August 2010 16:38 (fourteen years ago) link
ayn rand is turning into l. ron hubbard
― ('_') (omar little), Friday, 13 August 2010 16:38 (fourteen years ago) link
i guess, but it's one of the those books that teens, or certain teens, really seem to take so, which counts in its favor
― a CRASBO is a "criminally related" ASBO (contenderizer), Friday, 13 August 2010 16:53 (fourteen years ago) link
i would LOVE to have read it in high school, just for the ensuing debates
― a CRASBO is a "criminally related" ASBO (contenderizer), Friday, 13 August 2010 16:54 (fourteen years ago) link
I had to read Anthem in high school. it came across as a self-aware Choose Your Own Adventure book however with all the choices predetermined for you :(
― plate of dinosaurs (San Te), Friday, 13 August 2010 16:55 (fourteen years ago) link
We had enough debates with the following:
SiddharthaDeath In VeniceThe StrangerJohnny Got His GunThe Adventures of Huckleberry FinnSulaGoing After CacciatoTheir Eyes Were Watching GodThe JungleHeart of Darkness
I can't imagine throwing The Fountainhead in there, too
― How could you forget the crazy hooker? (HI DERE), Friday, 13 August 2010 16:57 (fourteen years ago) link
yeah, i'm no Ayn Rand fan on any level -- but i wouldn't object to having the fountainhead being read in a high school class. it isn't any more controversial than a lot of the books Dan just listed (though there is the rough sex/quasi-rape scenes which may not go over very well).
― The Beatles are not pizza!!! (Eisbaer), Friday, 13 August 2010 17:07 (fourteen years ago) link
\it isn't any more controversial than a lot of the books Dan just listed
the difference is that the Fountainhead is REALLY SHITTILY WRITTEN whereas most of the books Dan listed are actually really well written
― glitter hands! glitter hands! razzle! dazzle! (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 13 August 2010 17:08 (fourteen years ago) link
What?? You read those in high school? Holy shit. I can never tell if I missed all the notable literature b/c I took mostly science classes, or if my school was just crappy.
― Jesus doesn't want me for a thundercloud (Laurel), Friday, 13 August 2010 17:09 (fourteen years ago) link
I mean with those other books you can delve into the style and composition and metaphors and whatnot, there's a range of analytical approaches you can take. with Ayn Rand it's strictly "how stupid/awesome do you think this poorly presented philosophy is"
― glitter hands! glitter hands! razzle! dazzle! (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 13 August 2010 17:10 (fourteen years ago) link
well, "shittily written" is in the eye of the beholder. i don't think much of Upton Sinclair or Hermann Hesse as writers, either.
― The Beatles are not pizza!!! (Eisbaer), Friday, 13 August 2010 17:10 (fourteen years ago) link
I don't really have any objection to teaching Rand in high school other than do you really want to give teenagers justification to act even more like narcissistic dicks?
― congratulations (n/a), Friday, 13 August 2010 17:10 (fourteen years ago) link
I read about half that list in high school (either for AP history or for AP English) - although my list subbed the Invisible Man, All the King's Men, some others I'm forgetting at the moment...
x-post
― glitter hands! glitter hands! razzle! dazzle! (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 13 August 2010 17:11 (fourteen years ago) link
i don't think much of Upton Sinclair or Hermann Hesse as writers, either.
I'll concede on Sinclair - Hesse tho? he was a much better stylist than Ayn Rand
― glitter hands! glitter hands! razzle! dazzle! (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 13 August 2010 17:12 (fourteen years ago) link
I think we read the Plague instead of the Stranger
― glitter hands! glitter hands! razzle! dazzle! (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 13 August 2010 17:13 (fourteen years ago) link
it's like, you already think you're the most important person in the world and should be able to do whatever you want, now here's a "grown-up" "philosophy" that says it's OK, go out and have fun!
― congratulations (n/a), Friday, 13 August 2010 17:13 (fourteen years ago) link
wait, the invisible man by h.g. wells or am i to understand that you were taught ellison's invisible man in high school, in which case i am super-impressed and kind of awed?
― horseshoe, Friday, 13 August 2010 17:13 (fourteen years ago) link
upton sinclair has the advantage of being vv important and influential w/r/t actual issues of his day
― ('_') (omar little), Friday, 13 August 2010 17:14 (fourteen years ago) link
again, matter of taste re Hesse. not to mention that there may be translation issues (German --> English, and all that).
― The Beatles are not pizza!!! (Eisbaer), Friday, 13 August 2010 17:14 (fourteen years ago) link
Ellison (lol didn't read the Wells one until college for a genre fiction class). I think we spent like a whole quarter on it, it looms large in my memory.
xp
― glitter hands! glitter hands! razzle! dazzle! (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 13 August 2010 17:14 (fourteen years ago) link
They should introduce The Most Dangerous Game into the schools
― plate of dinosaurs (San Te), Friday, 13 August 2010 17:14 (fourteen years ago) link
I forgot Native Son and Black Boy
there was also a Louise Erdman book but I can't remember what it was because it was super super boring
― How could you forget the crazy hooker? (HI DERE), Friday, 13 August 2010 17:16 (fourteen years ago) link
of course upton sinclair is a better stylist than ayn rand! i realize this stuff is subjective but ayn rand is suuuuuch a shitty writer.
― horseshoe, Friday, 13 August 2010 17:16 (fourteen years ago) link
^^^this. which is why we read it in US history instead of English, iirc
― glitter hands! glitter hands! razzle! dazzle! (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 13 August 2010 17:16 (fourteen years ago) link
oh shit yeah we read Native Son too.
Light in August was another one.
am i to understand that you were taught ellison's invisible man in high school, in which case i am super-impressed and kind of awed?
we read the invisible man, wasn't even an AP class
public school in spokane fucking washington, too (redneck central)
sorta figured it was part of the standard american curriculum
no?
― a CRASBO is a "criminally related" ASBO (contenderizer), Friday, 13 August 2010 17:17 (fourteen years ago) link
it is really not standard! maybe i am naive to be shocked but that is a super-hard book!
― horseshoe, Friday, 13 August 2010 17:17 (fourteen years ago) link
light in august is quite a book for hs too
― call all destroyer, Friday, 13 August 2010 17:18 (fourteen years ago) link
totes. i <3 that one, would have loved to have read it in high school.
― horseshoe, Friday, 13 August 2010 17:18 (fourteen years ago) link
do a lot of ppl read 'death in venice' in HS? because that one stands out as far and away the most difficult of those texts, both style-wise and theme-wise.
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Friday, 13 August 2010 17:19 (fourteen years ago) link
ayn rand is so bad...i think my mom used to be into her work waaaay back when she was younger but now she finds her pretty reprehensible.
― ('_') (omar little), Friday, 13 August 2010 17:20 (fourteen years ago) link
i certainly did not read death in venice in high school
― horseshoe, Friday, 13 August 2010 17:20 (fourteen years ago) link
we really just did shakespearemacbethjulius caesarking lear
and also
pride and prejudiceoedipus the king
big focus on poetry in ireland tho
― plax (ico), Friday, 13 August 2010 17:22 (fourteen years ago) link
aye thee ould whiskeyand me sheepmake me lifecomplete
― ('_') (omar little), Friday, 13 August 2010 17:23 (fourteen years ago) link
10th grade IIRC
It was kind of an extra credit program concocted by our honors English teacher to combat the extreme boredom of some of us (two of whom now moderate this board, lol)
― How could you forget the crazy hooker? (HI DERE), Friday, 13 August 2010 17:23 (fourteen years ago) link
this horrible English teacher at my high school taught a senior elective called "political lit" only it turns out he was a crazy libertarian. as far as i know, the only female author he ever assigned in that class was ayn rand. >:[
― horseshoe, Friday, 13 August 2010 17:24 (fourteen years ago) link
can't even believe all these fancy books y'all read in high school
high school is just plain fucked up
― ('_') (omar little), Friday, 13 August 2010 17:25 (fourteen years ago) link
at any rate re: Rand, I still stand by what I wrote upthread; regardless of how terrible we find her in 2010, I have at least one concrete example of how she inspired a dude facing a lot of discrimination and economic hardship growing up to get a PhD and run a lab for a Fortune 100 company and it was all very beneficial to my life as a child, so I am not going to hate
― How could you forget the crazy hooker? (HI DERE), Friday, 13 August 2010 17:25 (fourteen years ago) link
oh yeah we did a bunch of Shakespeare too - Macbeth stands out as the most memorable, cuz we were shown bits of the Polanski version and the Orson Welles version (which is awesome) in its entirety. Also Othello, something else... not Hamlet
― glitter hands! glitter hands! razzle! dazzle! (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 13 August 2010 17:27 (fourteen years ago) link
oh yeah Midsummer Night's Dream
tbh i was one of the worst students of all time and basically never did homework ever (one of my best friends used to boast about not even owning copybooks for loads of subjects) and i used to just bring my own books to class and read them and wait for school to be over for good. i'm still so glad it is!
― plax (ico), Friday, 13 August 2010 17:27 (fourteen years ago) link
a terrible man for the studying
― "It's far from 'loi' you were reared, boy" (darraghmac), Friday, 13 August 2010 17:28 (fourteen years ago) link
we werent allowed watch the polanski version bc my teacher said "unlike in the ACTUAL PLAY they show duncan being murdered, and i know that most of you wont bother reading this or even paying attn. to me right now or ever. but i cant deal w/ reading any essays where you describe the murder scene"
― plax (ico), Friday, 13 August 2010 17:28 (fourteen years ago) link
we did Julius Caesar in 9th grade, no Shakespeare in 10th grade (American lit), King Lear in 11th grade (best ever), and then senior year was electives and some years a Shakespeare elective was offered, but not my senior year.
― horseshoe, Friday, 13 August 2010 17:28 (fourteen years ago) link