now is time for the Brian De Palma's best film

Both that and Black Dahlia had just enough great stuff among the bad bad bad ideas that I still get excited for his next film even if I can't actually recommend the previous ones to anyone other than hardcore DePalma fans.

I can't bring myself to defend Redacted. Parts of it were "worst movie ever" territory.

sometimes think there's this De Palma switch where you're either in the palm of his hand or laughing at the hand, and he seems to want both reactions at once sometimes, except it's a true binary.

I really disagree with this being a "true binary" - there are plenty of horror movies where I know the tricks they're using, but they're getting me excited all the same.

Yeah, it's not a true dichotomy. Dressed to Kill and Raising Cain are scary-funny.

People have differing levels of tolerance for it though - Raising Cain trips into the "no, this is just bad" category for me - and it really does seem like movies that play with the "is this bad or just shameless and campy" - Snakes On A Plane, Drag Me To Hell, A-Team - are destined to underwhelm at the box office.

I'd say Carrie is really scary-funny--some of Travolta and Allen's back-and-forth is fantastic.

Same here. I find Carrie genuinely scary-funny, Raising Cain just insanely over-the-top, which is easier and rarely as worthwhile (Strangelove and some other things pull it off).

as much as DePalma gets slighted by his peers (I wonder how he felt when his old drinking buddies Speilberg, Lucas and Coppola gave Scorsese his belated Oscar), all these directors wrestling with self-awareness and the marketplace really need to tip their hat to him.

Raising Cain just insanely over-the-top, which is easier and rarely as worthwhile (Strangelove and some other things pull it off)

Meaning it's OK to be over the top when reality is JUST AS INSANE, MAN?!

I lost you there. Maybe I tried to overthink something very simple: Strangelove is funny, Raising Cain isn't.

Mostly I was wondering why Cain and Strangelove were being compared in the first place. (And parts of Cain are pretty funny imo.)

I find RC hilarious, even John Lithgow's hamminess. I was wrong upthread to call it scary.

I still think it's hilarious that anybody thought to cast Hilary Swank as Madeleine in Black Dahlia. Like I've always thought she's cute, but she's nobody's doppleganger, least of all Mia Kirschner.

I've heard nothing but bad things about the movie, which is a shame as I loved Ellroy's book. I think it'd make for a great miniseries.

you can hear some good things right now- it's weird but has a compelling vibe (though it's really inconsistent in tone)- but i've never read the book so prob enjoyed it better for that

Strangelove and Cain are probably a bad comparison. I just meant that they both have over-the-top performances, and that in one film they work (for me) but not in the other.

I just bought a budget DVD of Dahlia. I'll probably pick it up numerous times over the coming months, think "Do I want to give this a try?", and end up watching something I've seen six or seven times already instead.

What kind of maniac votes for Bonfire?

exercising their right to vanity

I still think it's hilarious that anybody thought to cast Hilary Swank as Madeleine in Black Dahlia. Like I've always thought she's cute, but she's nobody's doppleganger, least of all Mia Kirschner.

The audition reels of Kirschner talking with an off-screen DePalma are GREAT, but oh god Swank is the wrong kind of campy. Originally DePalma wanted Fairuza Balk for the role which would have been so much better, but I guess the producers wanted some of that Oscar magic.

Dahlia was butchered to all for release, wasn't it? I was watching it again a few months ago, and while I don't think a longer cut could save its problems (Swank, for instance), it definitely might improve it.

jennifer connelly would have been a proper doppelganger

black dahlia was pretty painful for me. feel like there is a *great* movie (maybe even a great depalma movie) lurking in there, but it was just bad. if i had voted in this poll, i might've voted Sisters.

the last thing a batshit OTT novel like the black dahlia needed was a batshit OTT director, it kinda brought out the worst in both the core story and the filmmaker.

^^ batshit OTT post

the last thing a batshit OTT novel like the black dahlia needed was a batshit OTT director, it kinda brought out the worst in both the core story and the filmmaker.

I think a bad cast was a much bigger problem with this movie than an OTT director - the most entertaining scene was the OTT dinner sequence!

josh hartnett is just the worst

yeah, he really is. so dull. at least the worst of depalma's other movies still have pretty great off the wall performances (cage in snake eyes, for ex.), but Hartnett is so boring.

I try to actively avoid movies he's in. It was also funny hearing him say the opening lines to Sin City in bad pseudo-noir speech

it's funny cuz when I read Black Dahlia, I pictured people much tougher and less pencil-dicked than Eckhart and Hartnett. I mean Hartnett a former boxer? Dude looks like the kind of guy who freaks out if you tussle his hair.

the cast is pretty laughable in Dahlia (totally agree about the wtf casting of two "doppelgangers" who don't look remotely alike) but it has other problems too. that final shot of Hartnett freaking out on the lawn, just terrible... there are two decent sequences in it: the long tracking shot discovery of the body, and the OTT high society dinner scene. the rest is garbage.

yeah, that tracking shot is nicely done. it's true -- depalma's always worth watching for moments like that, even if the rest of the flick is awful. pretty much every one of his movies has something awesome in it, however fleeting.

missed this - would have gone with body double or femme fatale.

I sometimes think there's this De Palma switch where you're either in the palm of his hand or laughing at the hand, and he seems to want both reactions at once sometimes

― Pete Scholtes, Sunday, September 12, 2010 9:12 AM (Yesterday) Bookmark

otm, good looking out

I rewatched Casualties of War last night. Excellent. Two instrusive flaws: too many "God, no" reaction shots of Fox--the JFK syndrome--and his "Maybe it matters more" speech is altogether unnecessary. Neither is that damaging. I remember when this came out, a local Toronto reviewer--someone who has since gone on to a very prominent role in the film festival here--dismissed the film as another of De Palma's "kill the bitch" (the phrase turns up in the film, and I'm pretty sure it was echoed in his review) indulgences. I thought it was a criminally stupid thing to say then, and still do. The treatment of the Vietnamese girl in Casualties is about as sad and as humane as anything I can think of.

speak of the devil. Jonathan Rosenbaum on Snake Eyes

I haven't read a lot of Rosenbaum--I have one of his books, and skipped out on a chance to see him six years ago so I could see one of the Red Sox-Yankees playoff games--but it doesn't surprise me that he'd use Snake Eyes as a means to put down Casualties of War. De Palma probably brought that on himself. You make enough versions of [i]Snake Eyes and Raising Cain in your career, and you pretty much ensure that people are ready to pounce when you make Casualties of War. As I know people here will. But I've been in the same place--I'd take Jaws and The Sugarland Express a thousand times over Schindler's List or Saving Private Ryan--so I won't complain.

dude lost me at Raising Cain, Carlito’s Way, and Snake Eyes are generic stylistic exercises that reveal he’s digested his sources rather than simply devoured and regurgitated them.

Leaving aside the idea that "generic" is something to aim for, plenty would argue with Carlito's Way and Raising Cain he was simply devouring and regurgitating himself

Not to mention all the Coppola/Scorsese regurgitation in Carlito.

Rosenbaum's a huge fan of Femme Fatale.

is The Bonfire of the Vanities worth a peek?

I thought for sure I had it, and was thinking about finally watching it tonight. I don't. I must have held it my hands and contemplated buying it about a dozen times at least.

Bonfire is only worth seeing to compare with that Devil's Candy book. I can't think of a single thing that works in it.

yeah, horrible movie imo

Improving Bonfire's Opening Scene

I've really wanted to rewatch Femme Fatale for a while now. I should get on that.

But I've been in the same place--I'd take Jaws and The Sugarland Express a thousand times over Schindler's List or Saving Private Ryan--so I won't complain.

I think most critics feel this way now. I might be mistaken (maybe an actual critic can help out here), but from what I gather critics really go for early Spielberg up to and including Empire of the Sun and then pick up again with A.I. and on through to the present.

one of my current castmates was in Bonfire of the Vanities, in a small bit role. He said Brian De Palma is the worst director to work with as an actor, and said he rarely, if ever talks to his actors, and often puts them through hell.

Improving Bonfire's Opening Scene

― da croupier, Saturday, September 18, 2010 10:40 PM (2 days ago) Bookmark

lol

DePalma may well be horrible with actors (though a lot of people have been happy to work with him multiple times), but after reading the Devil's Candy I dunno if I'd assume someone "in Bonfire of the Vanities, in a small bit role" would be best at gauging how he usually is.

It was a bit role, but he was frequently on the set. he was in scenes with Bruce Willis, though I don't know which. again, one's experience differs from another, but that was just his take. He's done several movies with high profile directors, and merely said DePalma was his least favorite to work with.

i will say he wasn't one of the cast/crew who disliked Willis -- he had fond things to say about him

i think he was in the scenes described in that book because he talked about something like "three days of hell"

Don't really care how the sausage is made, especially when I don't usually watch De Palma movies for their performances.