I had to stop myself from using the eggs/omelette analogy earlier on because I thought it was a bit crass but, yes, it's difficult for a few eggs not to get broken - especially when making such an enormous and unwieldy omelette!
― Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 31 January 2006 15:57 (eighteen years ago) link
Is it like the difference between a forced and an unforced error?
― M. White (Miguelito), Tuesday, 31 January 2006 16:00 (eighteen years ago) link
― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 31 January 2006 16:45 (eighteen years ago) link
― Cathy (Cathy), Tuesday, 31 January 2006 16:56 (eighteen years ago) link
otmfm. i find it astonishing that someone as bright as hobsbawm is so naive as to think the workers' paradise was right around the corner, give or take 20 million dead.
― mookieproof (mookieproof), Tuesday, 31 January 2006 17:01 (eighteen years ago) link
!!! suddenly feel terribly old...
― AleXTC (AleXTC), Tuesday, 31 January 2006 17:02 (eighteen years ago) link
x-post
(only by a few months, AleXTC!)
― Cathy (Cathy), Tuesday, 31 January 2006 17:03 (eighteen years ago) link
It's called "having faith" and "believing in something"
― Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 31 January 2006 17:04 (eighteen years ago) link
― M. White (Miguelito), Tuesday, 31 January 2006 17:06 (eighteen years ago) link
― mookieproof (mookieproof), Tuesday, 31 January 2006 17:08 (eighteen years ago) link
― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 31 January 2006 17:09 (eighteen years ago) link
― M. White (Miguelito), Tuesday, 31 January 2006 17:11 (eighteen years ago) link
Just explaining, not condoning. Faith does not require intelligence.
― Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 31 January 2006 17:13 (eighteen years ago) link
But even if Communism is/was a tragic mistake or unreachable Utopia, it was based on a desire to improve the quality of human existence. What does W believe in other than more money for those who've got plenty already? Some faiths are intrinsically more virtuous than others.
― The Man in the Iron-On Mask (noodle vague), Tuesday, 31 January 2006 17:40 (eighteen years ago) link
as has been pointed out, in any case, "rove/cheney" (haha), for all their manifest faults, misdeeds and killings, have yet to kill tens of millions of people in the name of anything at all. and with any luck, no one will be interviewed fifty years from now and claim that it was worth killing however many muslims because a democratic utopia might have been realized.
― mookieproof (mookieproof), Tuesday, 31 January 2006 18:27 (eighteen years ago) link
― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Tuesday, 31 January 2006 18:37 (eighteen years ago) link
And you'd be OTM. It reminds me of when Republicans ask "Isn't it worth it to torture some prisoners in order to gain valuable information and save lives?" Wrong question -- not enough evidence that torture actually has anything to do with preventing terrorism and saving lives.
― Abbadavid Berman (Hurting), Wednesday, 1 February 2006 03:38 (eighteen years ago) link
Interestingly, the current interim administration in Russia**hardly what I'dcall orthodox, but okay, whatever**announced today that they'd developed anadvanced missile system unmatched in the world. It's all over the internet.This demonstrates what I've been trying to point out, that with access toinexpensive computers, as well as more robust mainframe platforms, realprogress is not only possible, but inevitable. Even you lot will recognizethe coincidental timing**just as cheney-rove has positioned himself in iraq,Russia feels the need for a superior missile DEFENSE system. Not at allsurprising. The oil thing is such a red herring. Cheney-Rove doesn't careabout Iraqi oil. When they want oil, watch out Alberta. This iraqinterlude is just an attempt to attack the core of the former SU from whatthey perceive as a vulnerable spot. Sorry. Busted.
Not that anyone has noticed this other than the interim administration inRussia. Europe especially is full of chattering hyenas, not dissimilar tothis board-no it's Thompson, no it's hobsbawm, no it's the WSP, Englishbranch or American branch? Like it makes a difference.
Whatever.
― bethune, Wednesday, 1 February 2006 05:01 (eighteen years ago) link
Uh, do you actually know who "cheney-rove" *is*?
― Abbadavid Berman (Hurting), Wednesday, 1 February 2006 05:04 (eighteen years ago) link
followed by a couple of paragraphs of insanity.
You a bad troll and we can have this conversation on our own, thanx.
― The Man in the Iron-On Mask (noodle vague), Wednesday, 1 February 2006 08:16 (eighteen years ago) link
-- The Man in the Iron-On Mask (noodle_vagu...), January 31st, 2006.
maybe communism in the abstract was about improving things for everyone, but i'm not sure russian communism was, in 1934.
― The Man Without Shadow (Enrique), Wednesday, 1 February 2006 09:18 (eighteen years ago) link
― The Man in the Iron-On Mask (noodle vague), Wednesday, 1 February 2006 09:33 (eighteen years ago) link
― Dadaismus (Dada), Wednesday, 1 February 2006 10:46 (eighteen years ago) link
but yeah in the uk i can see how it would look much more promising than the milk-and-water trade unionism of the parliamentary left.
― The Man Without Shadow (Enrique), Wednesday, 1 February 2006 10:58 (eighteen years ago) link
― Dadaismus (Dada), Wednesday, 1 February 2006 11:03 (eighteen years ago) link
― The Man Without Shadow (Enrique), Wednesday, 1 February 2006 11:07 (eighteen years ago) link
― bethune, Wednesday, 1 February 2006 19:36 (eighteen years ago) link
― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 1 February 2006 19:38 (eighteen years ago) link
― latebloomer (latebloomer), Wednesday, 1 February 2006 19:51 (eighteen years ago) link
― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 1 February 2006 19:53 (eighteen years ago) link
― mookieproof (mookieproof), Wednesday, 1 February 2006 19:54 (eighteen years ago) link
Great rhetoric but demonstrably untrue.
― M. White (Miguelito), Wednesday, 1 February 2006 19:56 (eighteen years ago) link
― M. White (Miguelito), Wednesday, 1 February 2006 19:59 (eighteen years ago) link
― truck-patch pixel farmer (my crop froze in the field) (Rock Hardy), Wednesday, 1 February 2006 21:06 (eighteen years ago) link
that's good, too
― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Wednesday, 1 February 2006 21:14 (eighteen years ago) link
― M. White (Miguelito), Wednesday, 1 February 2006 21:19 (eighteen years ago) link
I think W probably believes that his foreign policy will spread democracy and make America safer, that abortion is morally wrong, etc.
― 31g (31g), Wednesday, 1 February 2006 23:43 (eighteen years ago) link
I firmly believe that W believes that "democracy" and "freedom" as experienced in the US are, at the very least, the pinnacle of human accomplishment to date. I wouldn't want to vouch for his whole administration, nor would I necessarily deny that he is open to "helping out his friends" along the way.
It's this conflating of religion (faith) and the particularities of American politics, culture, and economics that are what make him so dangerous.
― Mitya (mitya), Thursday, 2 February 2006 02:42 (eighteen years ago) link
brit deal with hitler was bad -- ie 'ok take the sudetenland and we won't respond' -- but not quite on a par with the russian deal with hitler -- ie 'take half of poland, we'll take the other half, and together we'll kill everyone'.
― The Man Without Shadow (Enrique), Thursday, 2 February 2006 09:30 (eighteen years ago) link
― TRG (TRG), Thursday, 2 February 2006 14:43 (eighteen years ago) link
― mookieproof (mookieproof), Thursday, 2 February 2006 14:52 (eighteen years ago) link
― bethune, Saturday, 4 February 2006 17:07 (eighteen years ago) link
The maneuverings of cheney-rove during the past couple of weeks-the "hunting" incident, and now the Dubai flare-up - are merely smokescreens to take focus away from the role of the current post-soviet regime's attempts to play honest broker in the mid-east.
Almost no coverage has been granted to russia's efforts to organize a nascent labour movement in Syria and Iran. After their success in Saudi, worker representatives in Syria asked the russian movement for assistance organizing. This is the last thing cheney-rove wants publicisised. A peaceful workers' uprising would stunt cheney-rove's juggernaut in the region.
Not that it will get out, given cheney-roves stranglehold on US and European media outlets--witness the cartoon fracus.
The current regime in russia isn't strictly orthodox, but early signs are that the direction is appropriate. Look for a reconstitution of a shadow "supreme soviet" to serve as an advisory panel. You heard it here first.
― bethune, Sunday, 26 February 2006 16:48 (eighteen years ago) link
Well, there's a novel interpretation.
― Cathy (Cathy), Sunday, 26 February 2006 16:58 (eighteen years ago) link
― bethune, Sunday, 26 February 2006 18:18 (eighteen years ago) link
― NoNoNoNo, Sunday, 26 February 2006 19:52 (eighteen years ago) link
― TRG (TRG), Sunday, 26 February 2006 21:31 (eighteen years ago) link
http://www.etext.org/Politics/Staljin/Staljin/articles/lies/lies.html
And here's Johann Hari's article on The Stalin Society, followed by Harpal Brar's predictably scathing response:
http://www.johannhari.com/archive/article.php?id=155
― metalmickey, Sunday, 26 February 2006 22:13 (eighteen years ago) link
― bethune, Monday, 27 February 2006 06:14 (eighteen years ago) link