are you an atheist?

http://www.raige.net/pictures/images/RaigeKeyboard.gif

I would just like to state for the record that bloody buggery God is not in my canon.

ack, I know what I mean.

JAYMC: The argument is nonsensical 'cuz it's a comedy strawman designed to make other, legit arguments look bad. Which is kinda silly, 'cuz the non-joke "rational" arguments for the existence of god don't need the assistance. They look bad enough on their own.

-- contenderizer, Wednesday, May 21, 2008 6:05 PM

well, these are flippant, pithy summations of big theist ideas like the argument from design or the argument from personal revelation. it's jokes!

bruv

bloody buggery God is not in my canon

LO, BUT HE IS VENGEFUL! REPENT!

Sorry, kkvsgz. I am too busy reviving cockroach threads to create that poll.

I used to be an atheist, but then I did a bunch of potent drugs over a long period of time, and became an agnostic who hopes that when I die and my conscious being becomes freed from the flesh, it becomes a part of a sentient all-knowing universe or something.

I chose 'yes' anyway, though. I used to have a lot of opinions about this - coming from a very religious family - but I really don't care enough to discuss it any more.

Yeah I can only have the discussion so many times before it becomes asphyxiating.

btw I didn't mean to insult this thread by posting that or anything. There are some good thoughts on this thread for sure. I just don't really have much to contribute to the subject any more.

Alfred, otm - after years of trying to sort out just what my personal belief system was, invariably in the context of one religious system or another, it was freeing to acknowledge that I don't believe in the existence of god, or gods.

But then you're sort of stuck in a atheist belief system, right? (Is that how you would say it in English?) And you have to build up everything from there which completely fucks me up. :-(

guess what bros we're all atheists about a lot of really improbable shit with no proof to it, and despite positing stoner hypotheses about how we could all be in a big snow globe or some such other horseshit it's kind of how we deal with the observable world - this doesnt mean we wouldnt believe in shit if suddenly there was evidence for it but right now im not seeing increased evidence for god-belief over, i dunno, reptilian humanoid conspiracy theory belief, beyond social acceptability of religion x wishful thinking

BUt there are eyewitness accounts of Tony Blair turning into a lizard and drinking virgin blood!

im not seeing increased evidence for god-belief over, i dunno, reptilian humanoid conspiracy theory belief, beyond social acceptability of religion x wishful thinking

exactly. i don't see how just cause some view is widely held, NOT holding it makes one *automatically* dogmatic.

i don't see how just cause some view is widely held, NOT holding it makes one *automatically* dogmatic.

-- Granny Dainger

totally agree, but as evidenced on this thread, people seem to equate atheism with being dogmatic about it.

fwiw i think that the world would be better if reptilian humanoid conspiracy theories were eradicated and feel the same way about theism

That does't surprise me at all.

http://g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/ciu/a6/55/b509729fd7a05363c70ce010._AA240_.L.jpg

nobody's perfect

http://www.unoriginal.co.uk/comics/toon222god.jpg

but are lots of dogmatic atheists out there

Not really.

Wasn't a question. There ARE lots of dogmatic atheists out there. I've met tons of them. Hell, they've even made the bestseller list lately.

Maybe atheism is just a sign of our times (am I saying it right?)? Like religion once was and is now some outmoded belief system people cling on cause they don't know any better or just blindly accept it?
Thing that keep me awake... :-)

but proportionally, do you really think they're a large % of atheists? Enough to warrant people to be wary of labeling *themselves* atheist? A book called "I AM ATHEIST...BUT IT'S TOTALLY COOL IF YOU DIG THE LORD" wouldn't sell much.

seriously atheists are like what, 1% of the world's population?

religion ain't going anywhere

I have no idea why anyone would be wary of labeling themselves an atheist (presuming, you know, they were one). And while I imagine that most atheists are chill about it, I've known quite a few angry, butthurt, "all religion sucks" types. Enough to make me suspect that, since atheists are such a small percentage of the overall pop, a goodly chunk of 'em are uptight assholes about it.

What you say about marketable book titles is true, but it doesn't exactly refute my point. A lot of atheists do seem to enjoy buying and reading books about how religion is a rogue meme, a crime against humanity that should be eliminated.

Most statistics group secularists, nonbelievers, agnostics, and atheists into the same category, at about a billion people (China helps). In the U.S., that group is about 7%, with self-identified atheists at around 2%. Far fewer than the number of dogmatic Christians. I've never had an atheist knock on my door with pamphlets, though that would be hilarious (and probably dangerous for the pamphleteer).

Both the existence of God and the nonexistence of God have been used as justification for bad things (and good ones), I doubt spreading disbelief would necessarily lead to a better world.

Contenderizer, your argument from experience doesn't support your point, so your point hardly needs extra refuting. I guess we can say there are "many" or "a lot" of asshole atheists, but those aren't very firm numbers you're using, and they pale in comparison to asshole relgious people (at least in the U.S.). Possibly they are "butthurt" because they are frequently baited into stupid debates with dumbshit Christies if they mention they don't believe in God?

I think the 2 biggest factors that cause people to be dogmatic butthurt atheists are 1) age. seems like mellow on over time 2) the current climate in the US where other people's perverted takes on their religion is foisted onto society at-large. If religious folks, particularly the ones invested with political and administrative power, were peace-loving, charity-giving, tolerant people, I can't see many atheists being dicks about their opinion.

Contenderizer, your argument from experience doesn't support your point, so your point hardly needs extra refuting.

--Gavin

Granny - Sure, I agree that relgious zealotry and intolerance of difference probably help make atheists (especially young atheists) grudgeful. But that's neither here nor there. I wasn't saying butthurt atheists aren't justifed. Just that they exist in large numbers. 'Cuz they do.

I doubt spreading disbelief would necessarily lead to a better world.

I also doubt it would turn us all into L'Etranger and we'd suddenly forget about any reasons to smile and have babies and take care of each other.

A lot of atheists do seem to enjoy buying and reading books about how religion is a rogue meme, a crime against humanity that should be eliminated.

-- contenderizer, Wednesday, May 21, 2008 4:22 PM (22 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

i know i do

believing stuff without any evidence is never a good idea, that's all i'm dogmatic about

i dont care if its yahweh, wiccan spirits, or wmds in iraq

also, the positive or negative effects on religion in the world have absolutely zero bearing on the question of whether god exists and i generally avoid using that argument when im talking to religionists

the positive or negative effects on religion in the world have absolutely zero bearing on the question of whether god exists

I cannot DISPROVE God's existence, and as was pointed out, that's enough for me to lose every argument I could ever forward in that direction. Which I think is a failure of human imagination on a sweeping global scale, but I'm not going to go around trying to convince people of that particular thing, because that's just my opinion. On a person-by-person basis, I don't care if you believe in God any more than I care if you bite your toenails when no one's around. Fine. I couldn't give one flat fart.

But then there's this Rogues Gallery of Really Crazy People out there, and they run countries and they kill people... I'm boring myself with this crap. It's so obvious.

I cannot DISPROVE God's existence, and as was pointed out, that's enough for me to lose every argument I could ever forward in that direction.

uh what
why is the burden of proof on you? you can't disprove a lot of things dude, that doesn't mean you have to admit they exist

I am aware of that.

o

Ban Catholics from Africa. That would make the world a nicer place almost immediately.

Maybe we don't need a god, we need a mod.

our mod is an awesome mod

no you di'int! i'm excited for results

Here's my thing about the "wouldn't fix anything" argument -- yeah, people have a little dark murderous glint in their eyes, a lot of them do, sure. Maybe it's innate. But we have this amazing ability to tame ourselves, and while one of the arguments *for* organized religion is that it does exactly that, anchors us emotionally, gives us a built-in community, etc, it also carries a heavy burden of Time and Ritual and Tradition and Crazy Shit Your Parents Told You and whatnot. The thinking of the nun who tells dying people that God hates condoms is not far off from the cracker who believes that the Confederate flag is a proud thing to wave at people -- it's clinging to something you believe to be beyond yourself, and carrying that special feeling with you in your actions until Oops! you're doing something hideously ugly.

And science can do that, too, sometimes. God knows it has given us some horrible things. But that's because we're people and we fuck up, not because the whole belief system has been engineered to never change.

The fact that people are enlessly capable of doing "hideously ugly" shit with their seemingly good ideas has nothing to do with religion. People use religion as an excuse for all types of shit, but people are awful damn good at finding excuses. In that sense, religion is like any tool: inert until put to a specifit use. I'm sure that, in the absence of religion, people who wanted to fuck each other over would come up with something.

I.e., what kenan said.

we did this before and ILX was like 85% "nope, don't believe in god."

Must have been a weird poll title.

Yeah, I'm curious how that'll work out. The results, I mean. Bcz I get a feeling there'll be a lot of "no" but I am more curious about the 'yes.' A lot of circles of friends I've been in, it's been kind of a shock when someone says they believe in god. Not that they get mistreated or mocked or whatevs, but it's always a surprise reveal. So maybe more of my buds wld say 'yes' in the option of anonymity? Or maybe we are all just godless.

Except when my boyfriend told me he believed in Jesus about two years ago and I had a crying jag/panic attack.