US POLITICS: "I figured clueless was better than argumentative."

oh for fuck's sake

I've spent my life living in a country controlled by the Tea Party or the purported opposition party living in fear of the Tea Party, so I'm not afraid of Speaker fucking Boehner.

if i'm honest i don't really mind the republicans winning the House.

Ha, well, I'm the opposite: the Senate's been useless. Pelosi's the only one who's gotten shit done.

I could give a good goddamn about Marco Rubio. Bill Nelson, Florida's senior senator, could show him how to be a non-descript hack.

i'm pretty scared of the idea of harry reid fucking john boehner

well, I like Pelosi so that would be a shame, but it seems likely they'll take the House is all.

i'm pretty scared of the idea of harry reid fucking john boehner

have you ever seen a desperate Mormon in heat?

aerosmith, the Dems are about to get repudiated for their actions, so it looks like you win!

no -- it looks like the Democrats win! they spent two years telling everybody who'd had any expectations whatsoever that they were naive assholes, selfish narcissistic children whose political passions weren't to be taken seriously under any circumstances. they made a concerted effort to alienate the very people whose donations and votes had put them into office; they made it clear that the left were useful for electoral purposes but were otherwise expendable. they got what they wanted: two years in the house & senate; they weren't interested in more than that. the votes they're losing would have been child's play to hold onto; they didn't gain any votes by writing off those of people who care about torture of prisoners & the right to privacy. this class of democrats wasn't going to do anything on behalf of the people whose lack of support they bemoan; they view that support as theirs by right of being not-as-evil. they should all go home to wherever in the hopes that the Democrats who replace them have something like an ethical center.

reid's a senator, jordy

"speaker-fucking" seems like it should be an urbandictionaryism by now, though

but like on the other hand that's just my opinion

That's so crude! Mormons prefer to refer to it as "estrous."

xxxp

they view that support as theirs by right of being not-as-evil. they should all go home to wherever in the hopes that the Democrats who replace them have something like an ethical center.

no such democrats -- or non-democrat progressives -- will fill that void. it will instead be filled by the GOP.

in the short term, at least. and i haven't heard much of a case that things will be different in the future, tho i hope i'm wrong.

reid's a senator, jordy

yeah i know, a horribly formed "joke"

How are they any different from the "Blue Dogs" that Emmanuel recruited in '06 and '08?

xpost

no such democrats -- or non-democrat progressives -- will fill that void. it will instead be filled by the GOP.

― Daniel, Esq., Tuesday, November 2, 2010 12:45 AM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

in the short term, at least. and i haven't heard much of a case that things will be different in the future, tho i hope i'm wrong.

― Daniel, Esq., Tuesday, November 2, 2010 12:45 AM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

in the short term is correct - if one reelects them, one can be 100% assured that things will not get any better. I mean this is simple behavioral reinforcement: you can't reward behavior and expect it to change.

daniel can you just appreciate that some people expect certain policies in return for their votes? politicians are smart about this shit - they'll position themselves as close to their opponent's left side as possible where they know they can count on getting a majority of the votes from the left and try to pick up some in the middle too. for some people that won't cut it - if you want my vote you have to actually fairly represent what i believe. it's just this game where the pol'll slide further & further right and be like "lol asshole, you're still voting for me tho right?" at a certain point it becomes - no, fuck you

It's delicious and totally appropriate that my representative, a GOP warmonger who's been in office since Claude Pepper died, has run to the left of every one of her opponents.

daniel can you just appreciate that some people expect certain policies in return for their votes?

yes, i can and do appreciate that.

I read this reasonable post with much pain, but really, how is a vote anything but an endorsement of their actions?

votes have been so close and contested recently, but still we're stuck conflating the vote with a popular mandate. bush used the term himself the week he won in 2004; obama did as much in the way he poured so much abstract idealism into his campaign & speeches. but it's always total fiction; obama did not win as much as mccain lost, and everyone who cast that vote with uneasiness have had their fears played like a violin in the two years since.

your moral abstention is not going to make the pitiful remnants of this party find the strength to fight harder. there's no way to make yourself heard through silence when everyone else is yelling -- abstention is basically just leaving your friends behind to fight. also, voting is probably not going to kill you

obama did not win as much as mccain lost,

for the record:

http://blog.4president.us/2008/2008ec.gif

so nuts to that.

just noticed that mccain carved a boner going up the country

dunno if i can trust 4president.us to give me accurate info

obama did not win as much as mccain lost

Maybe and maybe not, but if that's true it's doubly so in the House, where many Dem seats were won by narrow margins in strongly Republican districts, and many of those Congressmen couldn't reasonably have been expected to hang on to those seats for long no matter what else happened.

OK:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:ElectoralCollege2008.svg

Politicians claim "mandates" all the time. The difference with Obama's victory is that he could legitimately claim one: the biggest Dem winner since LBJ.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:ElectoralCollege2008.svg

voting is probably not going to kill you

Thanks for the opening, Milton. An Election Eve message from the dead:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIraCchPDhk

<3

"I'm sure that once the election is over, your country will improve immediately."

I can't be quite as curmudgeonly as George, but I wouldn't want to get caught trying to debate him on those points.

i don't think 08 can be described as "obama did not win as much as mccain lost" -- whoever grabbed the dem nomination had it basically in the bag. forgive me milton but this sounds like the kind of thing victor davis hanson and michael barone tell themselves.

anyway, i appreciate principled non-voting, i really do. but i don't do it. i just don't think principled voting occurs. like, when i pull the lever, it's not a stamp of blanket moral approval of everything that the powerful do for the remainder of their term. it's hardly a statment at all, just rather weak indication of preference: i'd rather this person hold that seat rather than some other person likely to get a majority. i understand that i am to feel implicated in this, somehow, morally, but i don't feel this way at all. i pulled the lever, and whatever they do next is on them.

i'll put it blutly: i know exactly to what degree this 'regime' has been bunglers or blunderers or cowards or miscalculators or over-calculators or just outright killers, i read the papers. but i'm going to get up tomorrow morning and vote for everyone i can find with a D next to their name, without regret, or a second look back, as i probably will do for the rest of my life.

i'm sure this is probably just as an infuriating decision to some as people advocating quietism or dropping out. i don't begrudge anyone their decision to do or not do anything politically. except vote for haley barbour, that guy looks like boss hogg and sounds like it too, come on.

/ I admit to overstating my case; the ratio was huge and the enthusiasm for obama was not an illusion

still, we owe many of the undecided votes simply to a pragmatic unwillingness to vote for mccain, and it's those people who have been targeted by the Tea Party. they'll be voting from the heart this time; it's our turn to be pragmatic.

Fuck the heart, seriously.

btw u guys are missin a helluva ballgame

they'll be voting from the heart this time; it's our turn to be pragmatic.

This means nothing. "The heart"? It's more like -- no, EXACTLY like -- the "gut" that Colbert talks about. Call me elitist, but Tea Partiers don't understand a thing about what they're voting for.

hm. 3 -- 0 giants in 7th.

Morbs otm again. There's little point in this particular conversation.

For those of you not voting for Democrats, do you live in states with ballot measures? and are you voting for them? Just curious. Ballot measures and candidates have always seemed like totally separate things to me, yet they are conflated together as "voting".

e.g. the marijuana initiatives in California and Oregon.

I've got eight amendments to our state constitution on which we're voting.

My district is a safe socially liberal Republican seat.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFSIcI0wmGw

for the record

For the record, Mo. went for McCain.

Tried to open all messages to read stuff from two hours ago and it practically crashed my browser (and, yes, I'm on a lame internet connection)

NEW THREAD, PLEASE

US POLITICS election/post-election edition: your country will improve immediately.