― j blount (papa la bas), Friday, 25 March 2005 01:07 (nineteen years ago) link
this is dotty in one sense - occam's razor blah blah - but it remains a perfectly neat way of reconciling intelligent design and evolution (give or take necessary extrapolations to fit info discovered since 1857)
― mark s (mark s), Friday, 25 March 2005 01:08 (nineteen years ago) link
this one: define 'persecute' plz?
mark says here:
petulant student: i know i'm right but i can't find the words to say itbad teacher: that's how i know you're wrong, please leave my class
― A Nairn (moretap), Friday, 25 March 2005 01:09 (nineteen years ago) link
I'm not assuming persecute = challenge. To persecute is to not allow the person to be challenged.
― A Nairn (moretap), Friday, 25 March 2005 01:15 (nineteen years ago) link
this does not make any sense.
― Father Brown and the Shroud of Turin, Friday, 25 March 2005 01:16 (nineteen years ago) link
if evolution had generally been BETTER taught (say) 50 years ago, this situation would never have arisen --- (such better teaching wd have included understanding and heading off at the pass the counter-position) (it's because it HASN'T been well engaged with - because not taken seriously politically - that it's taken such root, and become such a big political issue)
(of course strictly speaking, bad teaching isn't the cause of the problem, though it doesn't help - it's a bad thing in itself)
― mark s (mark s), Friday, 25 March 2005 01:17 (nineteen years ago) link
― A Nairn (moretap), Friday, 25 March 2005 01:18 (nineteen years ago) link
― Shakey Mo Collier, Friday, 25 March 2005 01:19 (nineteen years ago) link
― Matt Chesnut, Friday, 25 March 2005 01:21 (nineteen years ago) link
― A Nairn (moretap), Friday, 25 March 2005 01:21 (nineteen years ago) link
― Father Brown and the Shroud of Turin, Friday, 25 March 2005 01:25 (nineteen years ago) link
i think a.nairn means the persecuted isn't allowed to challenge the persecutor
however as a user of ilx i can't believe he isn't familiar with the situation where the pseudo-persecuted sets up a situation where a thread is derailed by bogus protests about unfairness and not being "allowed to speak", except then s/he IS "allowed to speak", nothing of consequence is said
(the main problem biologists have with "intelligent design" is that it's a totally unfruitful theory: it leads to NO research programmes, NO new ideas, nothing that might actually interest a biologist - though actually it HAS led to some good work tightening up and improving darwinist explanations)
― mark s (mark s), Friday, 25 March 2005 01:26 (nineteen years ago) link
― A Nairn (moretap), Friday, 25 March 2005 01:27 (nineteen years ago) link
― Father Brown and the Shroud of Turin, Friday, 25 March 2005 01:29 (nineteen years ago) link
― A Nairn (moretap), Friday, 25 March 2005 01:29 (nineteen years ago) link
― Shakey Mo Collier, Friday, 25 March 2005 01:30 (nineteen years ago) link
(part of the teacher's job - in fact a LOT of it - is to say to people, even people who are entirely WITH him in such and such a theory, that they are explaining it badly or stating it unclearly or whatever: and if they challenge him unbendingly on THIS, then they might as well find a new teacher)
humiliation is always a poor tactic: but bad pupils - and more to the point, manipulative pupils - also exist, who can engineer "situations of apparent humiliation"
― mark s (mark s), Friday, 25 March 2005 01:30 (nineteen years ago) link
― mark s (mark s), Friday, 25 March 2005 01:33 (nineteen years ago) link
Bullshit. I seriously doubt that any teacher at a public university institutions in this country tells students to leave their class. Ridicule, maybe (even that I am skeptical of--ridicule is so broadly defined these days.) Ignore, definitely. But dismiss from class. I don't buy it.
― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Friday, 25 March 2005 01:34 (nineteen years ago) link
― walter kranz (walterkranz), Friday, 25 March 2005 01:34 (nineteen years ago) link
― Father Brown and the Shroud of Turin, Friday, 25 March 2005 01:36 (nineteen years ago) link
― A Nairn (moretap), Friday, 25 March 2005 01:36 (nineteen years ago) link
― Matt Chesnut, Friday, 25 March 2005 01:38 (nineteen years ago) link
― Matt Chesnut, Friday, 25 March 2005 01:40 (nineteen years ago) link
― Father Brown and the Shroud of Turin, Friday, 25 March 2005 01:43 (nineteen years ago) link
whoops double-post
― mark s (mark s), Friday, 25 March 2005 01:44 (nineteen years ago) link
― A Nairn (moretap), Friday, 25 March 2005 01:46 (nineteen years ago) link
― Shakey Mo Collier, Friday, 25 March 2005 01:47 (nineteen years ago) link
― A Nairn (moretap), Friday, 25 March 2005 01:48 (nineteen years ago) link
That might be what I do, but I'm still not too good at articulating things so I need to learn more first.
― A Nairn (moretap), Friday, 25 March 2005 01:50 (nineteen years ago) link
(unlike the flatness or otherwise of the world) (the ppl who are still convinced of this are unlikely to be hired to operate in all kinds of key industries: but no one much is likely to die or lose money if evolution turns out to be wrong) (the moment this is demonstrably not so, then the debate will dwindle)
― mark s (mark s), Friday, 25 March 2005 01:50 (nineteen years ago) link
ie it's pretty much totally a bogus problem, and the legislation being proposed takes the judgment out away from the one place it can reasonably be made, which is IN the classroom itself (by the congregation collectively present)
ie if ALL the pupils think this, then it's probably so: if only one of them thinks this, it probably isn't
trolls vs moderators on ilx being an opposite parallel
― mark s (mark s), Friday, 25 March 2005 01:55 (nineteen years ago) link
― j blount (papa la bas), Friday, 25 March 2005 01:57 (nineteen years ago) link
― Professor Pushover, Friday, 25 March 2005 02:00 (nineteen years ago) link
― j blount (papa la bas), Friday, 25 March 2005 02:01 (nineteen years ago) link
― j blount (papa la bas), Friday, 25 March 2005 02:03 (nineteen years ago) link
― Eisbär (llamasfur), Friday, 25 March 2005 02:03 (nineteen years ago) link
― Shmool McShmool (shmuel), Friday, 25 March 2005 02:05 (nineteen years ago) link
― Eisbär (llamasfur), Friday, 25 March 2005 02:05 (nineteen years ago) link
(also i wd rather give up the socratic method entirely than put a crimp in my disdain for the intelligence of david horowitz)
― mark s (mark s), Friday, 25 March 2005 02:07 (nineteen years ago) link
― Shmool McShmool (shmuel), Friday, 25 March 2005 02:09 (nineteen years ago) link
About the power dynamic, thing, too, you might be somewhat heartened to know that your experience is not universal. Cue Snap: "I've got the power." But that's because I respect my students, even those ign'ant conservative Christians. If anything, the main "problems" I've seen in classrooms involve kids having too much fun--still hungover, the occassional ones obviously stoned, etc.--but that's part of the college experience, so I work around that. Teaching's fun, believe it or not, and the fun party kids (who skew conservative, strangely) can be a good time.
― Professor Pushover, Friday, 25 March 2005 02:10 (nineteen years ago) link
― A Nairn (moretap), Friday, 25 March 2005 02:10 (nineteen years ago) link
(sorry anthony)
― mark s (mark s), Friday, 25 March 2005 02:12 (nineteen years ago) link
not personally, but I have kept silent when a professor has been going on about something that was completely contradictor to my belief.
"nairn has done this sort of thread derailing before -- and almost ALWAYS when the thread is criticizing conservatives. he's like roger adultery, only sneakier and more passive-aggressive."
It's not when the thread is criticizing conservatives, but when the thread criticizes Biblical Christianity.
― A Nairn (moretap), Friday, 25 March 2005 02:13 (nineteen years ago) link
― Matt Chesnut, Friday, 25 March 2005 02:14 (nineteen years ago) link
― Eisbär (llamasfur), Friday, 25 March 2005 02:14 (nineteen years ago) link
― mark s (mark s), Friday, 25 March 2005 02:15 (nineteen years ago) link