Why Do (some) Men Hate Women?

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I suspect John Bobbit became a laughing stock because he didn't have a penis anymore. It wasn't the severance that amused people but the 'lack' in him brought about by the amputation.

Most insults involve a threat of being lessened by the act of penetration: get fucked, you suck, blow me, etc, etc. Also, generally the worst thing you can call someone is a cunt. Women and gay men are objects of derision in our discourse because they are on the receiving end of the phallus. When Bobbit lost his penis he lost his stature. I agree it was mainly men making most of the jokes; I don't think it is funny to be considered inferior because you either don't have a penis or because you have had one inside you.

estela, Saturday, 8 February 2003 22:56 (twenty-one years ago) link

Who's laughing and making jokes? Other men! No one who's been the victim of sexual violence would make these jokes.

That's just not true. I've known more than one woman who, when hearing of the conviction of a man of whom she thought ill, jokingly suggested he be careful not to "drop the soap". There are plenty of movies where a cheating husband receives a blow to the groin, or worse, from his partner, and it's almost invariably treated as an empowering gesture. One of the signature moves of the lesbian comic strip character Hothead Paisan was a kick to the groin of any man who crossed her -- and it's been years since I saw the comic, but even in Hothead Paisan's comic world I don't think every single man who received one of those kicks was a rapist or pedophile. And as I said above, there have been posters who have been making jokes on ILE about cutting off men's penises, and those posters have been female.

Phil (phil), Saturday, 8 February 2003 23:04 (twenty-one years ago) link

When it comes to sexual crimes, female offenders do tend to recieve a slap on the wrist. There was a female school teacher not far from me, who was convicted of having sex with a 14 year old male student, she recieved 5 to 10 years, but was released after 2. certainly a male school teacher who had sex with a 14 year old female would recieve a life sentence.

DJ, Sunday, 9 February 2003 00:03 (twenty-one years ago) link

Not in Britain (don't know where you are) - I can't give you detailed facts and figures, but never life, and there have certainly been such cases where sentences have been months rather than years.

Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Sunday, 9 February 2003 00:06 (twenty-one years ago) link

re: Irv

I think it was very shocking for you to accuse me of
racism.

Any explanation for this shocking and apparently
unfounded accusation?

When did race enter the discussion?

I just know I'm a "Behind the Music" junkie and most
of the big rappers seem to come from broken homes.
I've seen the statistics; Regardless of race, the inner
city poor have a lot of familial problems that go along
with their other social problems.

Squirrel_Police (Squirrel_Police), Sunday, 9 February 2003 00:18 (twenty-one years ago) link

Martin. I have been searching the net and have found dozens of cases where women recieved a slap on the wrist, while men recieved long prison terms for similar crimes.

DJ, Sunday, 9 February 2003 02:29 (twenty-one years ago) link

Hothead Paisan is on the fringes. You cannot use that strip in an arguement to convince anyone that there is systemic man-hating in society. Come on.

re: women who sleep w/young boys and relatively light sentences. The attitude I hear a lot is almost a winking "well, she's doing those boys a good service", kind of thing--again, a predominantly male viewpoint. This attitude I think is largely responsible for lighter sentencing in these cases.

That Girl (thatgirl), Sunday, 9 February 2003 02:42 (twenty-one years ago) link

That girl, it was a female judge in the case near my town.

DJ, Sunday, 9 February 2003 02:54 (twenty-one years ago) link

Yeah for sure the whole "lucky bugger" thing is a factor in sentences, further to this inequality a wider issue also often asrises. While femimists have been sucessful in overhauling discriminatory laws against women there are a raft of laws in many western countires that are unfair and discriminatory against men which remain unchanged and outdated.

These are wide ranging from custody arrangements and child support arangements to sexual and violence charges that only exist for men and not women, to complusary millitary service/draft laws for men. Visit any "mens rights/activism" forum to hear bitter divorced men moan endlessly about such hypocrisay and unfairness....

I dont blame women for such inequality but rather the apathy of men in to such issues, generally discrimination and equality in society is viewed by many males as a female/race issue not a male one.

kiwi, Sunday, 9 February 2003 02:56 (twenty-one years ago) link

Concerning Hothead Paisan, kicking a man in the genitals is frequently used as a form of humor in movies and on tv. Even innocent movies such as "home alone" use this as a form of humor. I have never seen genital violence against women used as a form of humor in any movie! I know women will feel this is a non issue, but believe me the pain is exruciating, and can easily cause permenant damage.

DJ, Sunday, 9 February 2003 03:05 (twenty-one years ago) link

Hothead Paisan is on the fringes. You cannot use that strip in an arguement to convince anyone that there is systemic man-hating in society. Come on.

Sorry, that's a pretty shoddy rhetorical device: you've taken what I was trying to say -- which is that, in my opinion, people (not just men or women) are far more likely to find sexual violence comic and laughable when it's perpetrated against men -- and distorted it completely by taking only one of my examples and pairing it with a wildly exaggerated form of my premise. I've seen far too much intelligence in your other posts to believe you're not capable of a more thoughtful response than that.

Phil (phil), Sunday, 9 February 2003 04:21 (twenty-one years ago) link

(Besides which: "Max Hardcore is on the fringes. You cannot use his films in an arguement to convince anyone that there is systemic woman-hating in society." Odd how that doesn't sound quite as plausible, no?)

Phil (phil), Sunday, 9 February 2003 04:23 (twenty-one years ago) link

And as I said above, there have been posters who have been making jokes on ILE about cutting off men's penises, and those posters have been female.

guilty.

di smith (lucylurex), Sunday, 9 February 2003 04:33 (twenty-one years ago) link

the pain of being hit in the testicles is beyond excruciating. It is not just ordinary pain like bumping your elbow. There are no words to describe it! A women will never be able to understand how much it hurts. I truly feel that an intentional attack on a man's testicles for no valid reason is sexual assault, women will laugh at this statement, but like I said, they will never understand!

Stephen Ancroid, Sunday, 9 February 2003 04:58 (twenty-one years ago) link

A women will never be able to understand how much it hurts.

Oh, I don't know about that -- I've heard getting an ovary bumped can be pretty excruciating (though of course they're not as vulnerable) and may well be a comparable "kind" of pain, if that makes sense. I also think women have their share of pains that men don't have to suffer (menstrual cramps and childbirth in particular), something for which a good bit of respect is definitely in order.

But I do agree that it's difficult to explain, sometimes, just how devastating a pain it is -- and heck, even I don't know: I've never taken a major blow to the testicles, thankfully. From what I've seen, it is indeed one of the most incapacitating and overwhelming pains that a human being can suffer.

Phil (phil), Sunday, 9 February 2003 05:04 (twenty-one years ago) link

Since it is a similar organ, I would assume a painful ovary would feel the same as a painful testical.

Brock, Sunday, 9 February 2003 06:23 (twenty-one years ago) link

Hey bottom line is, I wish no hurt and pain on anyone, anywhere, anytime, anyplace.

That being said no one can convince me that there is an evil undercurrent of misandry (thanks, anthony) in modern society which impairs, threatens, and grossly affects the life of the average man.

There is for women.

So getting kicked in the balls hurts and people use this misfortune for comic effect. Well, getting anvils dropped on your head will kill you and lawyers don't wear mini-skirts to the office. Get over it. What do you want a chorus of violins and a pity party b/c of a few off-color jokes?

That Girl (thatgirl), Sunday, 9 February 2003 06:27 (twenty-one years ago) link

and lawyers don't wear mini-skirts to the office

Oh yeah, you've never seen one of the lawyers in my office building wooo! hot stuff!!

Brock, Sunday, 9 February 2003 06:32 (twenty-one years ago) link

phil upthread were you including practising voodoo to shrink heads as an inappropriate subject for humour? cz when it comes to real life crime statistics and stuff, this ranks low IMO

mark s (mark s), Sunday, 9 February 2003 12:50 (twenty-one years ago) link

oh i get it, you mean, you would never see an ad in which a guy shrank his g/f's head

sorry

mark s (mark s), Sunday, 9 February 2003 12:51 (twenty-one years ago) link

"Next time I see you you better be wearing a cup, motherfucker" - Eddie Van Halen

david q roth, Sunday, 9 February 2003 13:59 (twenty-one years ago) link

Everyone will see things his/her own way! but you are all overreacting, there is no gender war going on, I work in a hospital with dozens of men and women, and we all get along fine! Never have i seen anyone arguing over gender equality. I am sure this is the way it is with most men, and women.

Tri, Sunday, 9 February 2003 22:31 (twenty-one years ago) link

Aside from tennis players, most female atheletes are quite ugly! So I do not see any problem in letting men into the locker rooms. It's not like they will be turned on by anything!

Ralfus, Monday, 10 February 2003 06:27 (twenty-one years ago) link

The funny thing is, I have never heard of a male reporter demanding access to women's locker rooms. I guess it's just the internet crowd who is bothered by this.

Heather L, Monday, 10 February 2003 07:03 (twenty-one years ago) link

that is probably because no one cares about womens sports, so it's not like they will miss a scoop or something. If women's sports were as popular as men's, you know damn well they would be demanding access!

Ralfus, Monday, 10 February 2003 07:06 (twenty-one years ago) link

I think this explains some of the vicious record reviews I've had from women. Rock critics hate themselves, but female rock critics hate themselves even more.

Also, there's a misogynist tone to some of your work, which is just the sort of thing that puts off a woman critic. (Occam's razor: simplest explanation = true explanation)

J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Monday, 10 February 2003 09:34 (twenty-one years ago) link

The argument that women do not view men as sexual objects, and have no desire to look at naked men in the locker rooms is a load of crock! I was just on a wrestling message board, and the big topic seemed to be which wrestlers had the nicest butts! I am sure alot of these females would love to get into a wrestlers dressing room!

Irv, Monday, 10 February 2003 18:30 (twenty-one years ago) link

(I almost shot iced tea out of my nose when I read the story about the surgeon who sewed up his wife's vagina. Does this make me a bad person?)

Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 10 February 2003 18:52 (twenty-one years ago) link

(To be fair, I was laughing pretty heartily at Bobbitt, too.)

Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 10 February 2003 19:08 (twenty-one years ago) link

yes but is there any point when dan isnt laughing pretty heartily?!

gareth (gareth), Monday, 10 February 2003 20:35 (twenty-one years ago) link

Touche.

Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 10 February 2003 20:37 (twenty-one years ago) link

*sarcastically* Dan you can laugh at Bobbitt all you want, but don't you dare ever laugh at a female victim! Men's feelings do not matter, and crimes against men are so funny! But crimes against females are no laughing matter!

Stephen Ancroid, Monday, 10 February 2003 20:41 (twenty-one years ago) link

It starts in childhood, you teach your daughters self esteem, while making your sons feel worthless!

troy, Wednesday, 12 February 2003 05:50 (twenty-one years ago) link

Wha i would like to know, is why was John Bobbitt's name made public and also the names of other male sex crime victims have been made public. Female rape victims identities are kept secret.

nasty ned, Friday, 14 February 2003 20:54 (twenty-one years ago) link

Originally there were no female reporters who covered
sports, so there was no controversy. Now that there are
women reporters, with more of them arriving on the scene
every day, the practice of locker room interviewing needs to
change.

As a female reporter who covers sports, showing up at a Clan
football practice causes enough of a stir. I can't imagine,
nor do I want to experience, what the reaction would be if I
were to enter the locker room after a game. I'm sure the
athletes are no more excited about the prospect of a woman
in their locker room while they have no clothes on. I would
be uncomfortable and the athletes would be uncomfortable.
It's a no-win situation.

But female reporters are not going to stand outside the
locker room while male reporters are inside getting the
scoop (you can bet that male reporters would be screaming
loud and hard about equal access if they weren't allowed
into a women's locker room while their female counterparts
were.) Many athletes will only speak to one reporter. If a
female reporter does not have the opportunity to get to an
athlete first, then she cannot get her story and do her job.
While female reporters do not want to be in a room with a
bunch of naked men, it is their job. If male reporters are
getting interviews in locker rooms then the female reporters
have to do it also.

Personally, I think that there shouldn't be any reporters in
locker rooms, regardless of gender. After a game, an athlete
wants to get out of his uniform and have a shower. He does
not need a reporter sticking a microphone in his face while
he stands there with nothing but a smile on. Use the
conference room, that's what it's for.

Ban ALL reporters from the locker room. Then the whole
debate would be over. Cased closed.

Jane Female sports reporter, Monday, 17 February 2003 15:02 (twenty-one years ago) link

On a similar note, if you have ever been in a crowded night club chances are you have seen women using the men's restroom. I bet these same women would be the first to complain if a man walked into the women's restroom. Double standards again!

reed, Monday, 17 February 2003 15:49 (twenty-one years ago) link

In all fairness while male reporters may have restricted access to women's locker rooms, there are plenty of men who can just walk into a women's locker room, trainers coaches and such.

Barbie, Monday, 17 February 2003 16:55 (twenty-one years ago) link

How does one go about becoming a such?

Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 17 February 2003 18:58 (twenty-one years ago) link

The line for the women's is always five or ten minutes' long. If you really have to pee then maybe you use the men's room, not because you're sexist, but because a toilet is a toilet! It may be a double standard but it's there for a REASON. Why would a man go into a women's restroom if the line for the men's is way shorter? (I have NEVER seen the opposite situation, it's UNIVERSAL.)

Maria (Maria), Monday, 17 February 2003 19:27 (twenty-one years ago) link

You have to go to "such" school, Dan. Then you have to spend 3-4 months as a "such" intern.

Ralfus, Monday, 17 February 2003 19:35 (twenty-one years ago) link

maria, is it men's fault that women take longer in the bathroom? And does this mean that the men standing at the urinals with everything hanging out have to give up their rights to privacy in order to accomidate you? In reality it would be more fair to let the men into the women's rooms because women have the privacy of stalls, and nothing is visible.

reed, Monday, 17 February 2003 19:41 (twenty-one years ago) link

Reed, your argument makes no sense.

Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 17 February 2003 19:41 (twenty-one years ago) link

ok, dan, so you do not mind women walking in while you are standing there taking a wizz.

reed, Monday, 17 February 2003 19:46 (twenty-one years ago) link

Why should I?

Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 17 February 2003 19:48 (twenty-one years ago) link

I mean, if there's no problem with men wlking in while you are standing there taking a wizz, why should it be a problem for a woman to walk in? There's nothing inherently sexual about pee (SCAT FIENDS TO THREAD etc).

Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 17 February 2003 19:56 (twenty-one years ago) link

a lot of the toilets in clubs are unisex anyway

gareth (gareth), Monday, 17 February 2003 19:58 (twenty-one years ago) link

well then dan, and maria, how would you feel about making all bathrooms unisex?

reed, Monday, 17 February 2003 20:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

Wouldn't bother me at all.

Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 17 February 2003 20:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

I wouldn't mind bathrooms being unisex as long as they had stall doors. (That would remove the social function they have for women sometimes, but oh well.) I have no clue why some men's bathrooms don't have stalls if women's do, though...I really like privacy, I'm sure others do too.

Maria (Maria), Monday, 17 February 2003 20:01 (twenty-one years ago) link

I have no clue why some men's bathrooms don't have stalls if women's do, though.

To discourage gay sex, I suspect.

Phil (phil), Monday, 17 February 2003 20:19 (twenty-one years ago) link


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