I'd like to use Linux but...

Fedora 10 out yesterday ... Plymouth is a good idea. It's just an animated boot-up screen, but I think it's the closest Linux has come to a boot-up process that doesn't overwhelm the casual user with checks and daemons and inits and all that.

The animation is very nice, but you'd hope it doesn't affect booting time.

Also, Ubuntu started masking the daemons/inits list years ago.

that's the first thing i turn back on, i like to see what's happening 8)

(usually because my laptop usually stops at the acpi checks until i add acpi=off to the boot params)

usually usually

Video still pauses regularly, right-click in Firefox still does random things and pulseaudio is still worse than useless. Did I say Intrepid is better than Hardy? I WAS LYING.

it's the closest Linux has come to a boot-up process that doesn't overwhelm the casual user with checks and daemons and inits and all that

[...]

Ubuntu started masking the daemons/inits list years ago.

[...]

that's the first thing i turn back on, i like to see what's happening 8)

For real. I'm starting to think (like some snarky ppl upthread) that there are no "casual" users of Linux, not even Ubuntu. There are those that have computers that they know how to diagnose and (possibly) fix, and then there are those who have broken machines, and any user is moving quickly toward one of those extremes.

I don't know know all of what that text output is telling me when it boots, but I do know the last thing it says before it locks up, and being able to google that helps a lot.

pulseaudio is still worse than useless

Yes. You just have to yank that shit out and put esound back in for all your sound to work; there's no better solution, near as I can tell.

I think what puts alot of people off is the "work in progress" feeling.

holy shit ubuntu in a vmware player rocks

Unity is really really really really fucking horrible.

I have no problem with people changing interfaces and doing new things (especially in Linux, possibly the stuffiest most reactionary OS hivemind in existence) but THIS

I'm thinking of installing Ubuntu on my rubbish Acer Aspire netbook (currently running a funny version of Linux called Linpus which will not boot). Then I will be a proper nerd.

downloaded natty to try it in virtual box. 650M of iso. it then reads more files from network as it installs (language files for 1000 languages i don't speak). then the second thing it does is pop up Update Manager and ask for another 200M of downloads.

(the first thing it does is tell me i don't have the hardware needed to run Unity, probably as it's inside VirtualBox)

Oh, Linpus!

-xpost-

the first thing it does is tell me i don't have the hardware needed to run Unity, probably as it's inside VirtualBox

http://www.webupd8.org/2010/12/how-to-test-ubuntu-1104-with-unity-in.html

yeah, that's exactly what i was reading. but no dice, even after updating everything.

think unity is just forcing people to do what i've been doing for a while now - i run everything fullscreen and alt-tab between them. desktop icons are redundant (are always behind stuff) so i add everything as a top-level menu item or icon to task bar. and i also use vertical menus on left and right as screen is a lot wider than it is tall (this breaks some things though, like notification areas and window lists).

am curious, but in no real rush to upgrade my laptop - am using 10.4 LTS. and i already triple boot it between vista, jaunty and lucid (and fedora something).

I don't mind the concept of Unity, it's not being able to find stuff. Took me ages to work out how to make the icons in that bar thing a reasonable size (turns out that was a hack).

My laptop is a single-boot 10.04 (fuck windows) and has been since, well, 10.04, but I don't think I can be arsed putting 11.04 on there. Everything works as it is.

http://digitizor.com/2011/04/28/after-installing-ubuntu-11-04/ says:

"Note: Unity does not work with the proprietary ATI Graphics Cards driver. It does, however, work with the open source driver. The light weight Unity 2D works with ATI's proprietary drivers though."

which might explain it. will try it tomorrow.

oh dear

i just upgraded to 10.10 and i figured i'd stay there at least till unity gets ironed out.

unity-2d is downloading a bunch of qt related stuff... and mysql client... odd.

ok, i am unity-able now.

if i run anything fullscreen the taskbar disappears. which means i have to move mouse over the tiny ubuntu thing at top left to get it to reappear before choosing the (limited selection of) application i want and that hunting for the ubuntu button negates the whole purpose for having an always-on menu. (the windows key also brings menu back, but hey...)

also hate the scrolling / typing in order to find stuff.

might be ok, eventually. will need lots of personalisation though. i usually have to add a lot of stuff (development tools) but i can generally leave the standard stuff there and work around it as the development stuff goes into different menus. with the new limited amount of application slots i'm going to have to remove things.

You can bring up the bar thing by holding down the Win key.

(i said that!)

system settings available under the SHUTDOWN BUTTON! that's worse than SHUTDOWN being under START.

agh so you did

Also I saw System Settings there but as I was in the process of SHUTTING DOWN at that point it didn't register. What. the. hell were they thinking.

ah just found this thread. my initial thoughts:

just installed it and the windows manager is, well, different

also mildly revolted by the use of the word "Apps" everywhere

maybe it becomes usable with the keyboard shortcuts? seriously tho won't this just make it harder for ppl to migrate from windows? of course it's possible to disable unity but makes me wonder about the direction they are taking ubuntu and whether i want to switch to something else.

also what the hell is up with the scrollbar in evolution? i hate not having the file/edit/view/etc menu at the top of each individual window too. i have a massive monitor and it looks weird to run things full screen.

it's ugly how when you want to bring up the file/edit menu you have to hover the mouse over the bar at the top and then the menu is kind of written across the name of the application.

on the positive side installing flash and skype were easier than i remember before.

finding this wallpaper helpful: http://i.imgur.com/pf1y5.png

seriously tho won't this just make it harder for ppl to migrate from windows?

Shuttleworth wants to get away from the idea that Ubuntu is a response to other OSes. He wants Ubuntu to be a full and confident OS in its own right. Whether he's going the right way about it remains to be seen, I suppose, but I'm impressed with what Unity is and where it's going.

His other big idea is to rule the netbook market. Remember netbooks?

Oh and I agree about the scrollbar, totally hideous.

Unity's actually really good, just give it a wee while longer. I'm now using Windows only when I really need to (eg... urgh, MathCAD)

Oh I forgot to mention, since those angry posts at the weekend I've completely come round. Love Unity now.

When you install it it offers to keep your old Ubuntu where it is and create a whole new 11.04 partition. You don't have to nominate partition sizes or anything. In the past I've had to do all that manually. AND, it downloads updates while you're still at the regional settings bit! Very impressive.

Shuttleworth wants to get away from the idea that Ubuntu is a response to other OSes

that's fine but as far as i can see this is just a step towards mac os x away from windows? unity is actually quite nice on my netbook. i suppose due to smart phones people are getting used to a variety of operating systems so the fact that ubuntu has moved away from the windows-style layout isn't such a big deal.

Unity is really really really really fucking horrible.

― it always seems to have dick smith in it (Autumn Almanac), Thursday, 28 April 2011 09:09 (5 days ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

I'm impressed with what Unity is and where it's going.

― it always seems to have dick smith in it (Autumn Almanac), Monday, 2 May 2011 21:46 (Yesterday) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

?!

Oh I forgot to mention, since those angry posts at the weekend I've completely come round. Love Unity now.

― it always seems to have dick smith in it (Autumn Almanac), Tuesday, 3 May 2011 08:04 (12 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

!!

oops missed that one :)

haven't tried it yet but it seems like it would be right up my alley, i've long railed against the stupidity of desktop icons and the start button.

> the fact that ubuntu has moved away from the windows-style layout isn't such a big deal

except to the people who are quite happy with gnome...

time to start compiling gentoo, i think...

actually, i ran fluxbox for a couple of years and was quite happy with it. even used it with ubuntu - disabling metacity but keeping the gnome menu bars so i could use Network Manager rather than struggling with ppp for my modem. was a bit of a mongrel though and wasn't worth the effort when upgrading.

that's fine but as far as i can see this is just a step towards mac os x away from windows? unity is actually quite nice on my netbook. i suppose due to smart phones people are getting used to a variety of operating systems so the fact that ubuntu has moved away from the windows-style layout isn't such a big deal.

― tpp, Tuesday, 3 May 2011 19:57 (18 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

Yeah, Canonical's been steering toward Mac aesthetics for a while now, but (being as objective as possible) UI has in recent years been heavily split (a) between function and simplicity and (b) between getting in the user's way and getting out of it. Microsoft has been charging full-pelt to the former in both cases (although W7 has pulled back on the invasive UX), and Apple and Ubuntu have been going hard toward the latter in both cases.

reading Linux Format suggests that gnome's moving on as well, so even things that stick with gnome will suffer paradigm shifts.

http://www.gnome3.org/

(i still look for the 'up a directory' button in windows 7 every time i open explorer and am annoyed when i can't find it. 'Back' doesn't do the same thing.)

Up and back are different though.

In W7 you can click on the chunk of the path corresponding to "up" in the address bar, e.g. if you're in c:\animals\mammals\weasels you can click on "mammals" to go up one level, or "animals" to go up two. But yes, that is a bit of a faff. It's surprisingly much slower to have to read the screen to work out where to click.

I thought Unity just sat on top of Gnome, so in theory you should be able to disable Unity and revert to Gnome without too much pain? But I haven't upgraded yet (and I mainly access my Linux box via ssh, so I won't be seeing the GUI much) so I don't know.

(I'm not even very clear on exactly what is so different about it. Screenshots aren't helping me much. Off to youtube with me.)

Unity highlights:

- you run most stuff by typing part of its name (like gnome-do/quicksilver)
- if what you want isn't installed, it suggests what you want and provides a d/l link
- the dock is quite like a dock
- it's sort of hard to find some stuff

(the problem with clicking on the path is that not all of it's shown, only the last few directories and when you are deep and the directories have long names (java source trees, hello!) you have to revert to pressing the even tinier << button and then choosing from the ddlb there. i'd rather just hit 'up' half a dozen times. the alternative is to open the tree in the left hand side of the window, but that isn't as intuitive as it was and i haven'e been able to work out how it scrolls (it jumps when you open directories with lots of directories in them, meaning you lose where you were))

> you run most stuff by typing part of its name (like gnome-do/quicksilver)

i didn't like this moving from mouse to keyboard to mouse again

Nah. Hit win key, type name of app, hit enter.

Microsoft seems to be doing a lot of interface stuff for the sake of change rather than investing any real time/money in research.

Sorry for Windows chat on Linux thead, but:

the alternative is to open the tree in the left hand side of the window, but that isn't as intuitive as it was

YES I hate this! I always turn on the "Folders" view in XP (even get cross that if you spawn explorer from the command prompt, as I do daily, there's no command-line option to open the Folders sidebar) but it's almost bloody unusable in 7. You're right about the other disadvantage too; I'd forgotten about that one.

I thought Win7 changing the Start menu so that you were expected to type part of the program name was a bit of a funny move. Interesting to see that Unity does something similar. I don't mind typing, but if I'm going to type things, I may as well just type the whole thing at a command prompt, rather than fight with the start menu, which is bloody awkward to use without a mouse. Hopefully this is a bit easier in Unity.

(actually the music software I use recently went the same way - instead of looking through Plugins -> Effects -> Distortion -> Bob's Super Distortion Plug-In v1.3 you can now just type "bob" or "dist" and pick from a flat list - and that really is a lot quicker. I wonder where this trend started.)

> Nah. Hit win key, type name of app, hit enter.

until you install audacity and audacious2 and audacious-gtkui at the same time...

and you can't remember the name 'ekiga'

(and 'ti' brings up mahjong, with no explanation as to why)