stop reposting my parentheticals with your editorial editing
― El Tomboto, Tuesday, 22 February 2011 05:15 (thirteen years ago) link
I've really got to get cracking on this bruce bueno de mesquita shit, anyhoo
― El Tomboto, Tuesday, 22 February 2011 05:21 (thirteen years ago) link
2. Quo vadis? — If our current distribution has to change, on whose digital platform will we move? Is there, in other words, an alternative to Apple App Store?
Oh yeah, Facebook. Duh
― progressive cuts (Tracer Hand), Tuesday, 22 February 2011 10:26 (thirteen years ago) link
this guy gets it:
http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.os.openbsd.misc/134336/focus=134979
― caek, Tuesday, 22 February 2011 12:05 (thirteen years ago) link
you mean he wgets it
― progressive cuts (Tracer Hand), Tuesday, 22 February 2011 12:19 (thirteen years ago) link
BOOM
― progressive cuts (Tracer Hand), Tuesday, 22 February 2011 12:28 (thirteen years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I25UeVXrEHQ
― Princess TamTam, Tuesday, 22 February 2011 12:32 (thirteen years ago) link
"porn rules" is a joke but fuck it, porn will always be the innovative industry in how much of the internet works. Hell there was just a conference called http://www.contentprotectionretreat.com/index.html where the porn industry decided "The goal of the CPR is to significantly reduce digital piracy of adult content and to effectively drive those who engage in adult content piracy completely underground by January 2012."
i.e. so while newspapers and big production companies (music, tv and film industries etc.) just spend their time bitching and suing individuals, porn is getting shit done.
and its not like they never proved they can do whatever they put their minds to before, either
― if there is a King Moaty, apparently he is huge into slapstick. (a hoy hoy), Sunday, February 20, 2011 3:24 PM (2 days ago) Bookmark
not sure how holding a conference = getting shit done
i can announce that its my 'goal' to have hot naked chicks feeding me baby lobsters by 2012 but that doesnt mean i have some awesome plan to get it done
― Princess TamTam, Tuesday, 22 February 2011 12:34 (thirteen years ago) link
lol @ de Raadt
"Shame on, you hypocrite."
― El Tomboto, Tuesday, 22 February 2011 13:53 (thirteen years ago) link
effectively drive those who engage in adult content piracy completely underground
Um, where it is right now?
― Mark G, Tuesday, 22 February 2011 14:09 (thirteen years ago) link
Porn industry is kind of but not really the innovator you think it is here. The game bidness has been intimately aware of the piracy problem long before any other media industry unless maybe you count the cassette plague oh noes (lol whoa people actually added reviews of SA90's in 00's http://www.amazon.com/TDK-90-minute-Resolution-Cassette/dp/B00017YHME). lots of old standby copy-protection methods come out of game companies that shipped product on 5.25"s (type in your license code to register)
anyway what videogames have done to beat the pirates as best they can is force the content through proprietary platforms that they control, either by building content into obscure hardware like cart games or forcing an always-online check-in function. At any rate the App Store is really one big Steam engine tied to a hi-res Nintendo 1S that may or may not let you also make phone calls; so! if the future of the internet is about content lockdown, it's still app driven and everything turns back into cable tv. with better on-demand selection.
(Interestingly the other thing video game companies do that nobody else seems to (maybe porn does to, I dunno) is plan for the inevitable failure of their copy protection strategy. I love the bit in this article where the guy explains why shooting for a two month delay from official release to getting cracked is a big f'in deal:http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/3030/keeping_the_pirates_at_bay.php)
― El Tomboto, Tuesday, 22 February 2011 14:13 (thirteen years ago) link
the NWW list thread over on ILM is an example of why I think the future of the web as app & "social" driven is pathetic and dumb. If semantic web actually worked for people instead of machines, those kinds of conversations could be presented as wiki articles or category trees while experts can continue to rattle off whatever they know in regular human back-and-forth in the regular thread
― El Tomboto, Tuesday, 22 February 2011 14:18 (thirteen years ago) link
my habit of going back and writing pieces of posts in fits and starts and not giving anything the once-over before hitting submit is really starting to bite me in the wordsmith's ass
― El Tomboto, Tuesday, 22 February 2011 14:20 (thirteen years ago) link
That's the future also.
― Mark G, Tuesday, 22 February 2011 14:28 (thirteen years ago) link
I think general purpose browsers are going to be around for quite some time. The "location bar-less Chrome" idea that is going around right now is kind of dumb because, as far as Google's browser goes, the location field doubles as a search field and is the most important thing in the app for them. It's the one thing that very explicitly sends data to Google and lets them shape your browsing experience, especially when they've successfully conflated entering a URL with searching.
― mh, Tuesday, 22 February 2011 14:41 (thirteen years ago) link
general purpose browsers will be around for a long time, I didn't say otherwise, but who will be using them and for what (businesses, for business, until apps for intranet travel booking and b2b stuff are more fully legitimized)? people like apps. people get espn and the weather on their phone and suddenly they forget that you can get that stuff on regular computers or even the television
― El Tomboto, Tuesday, 22 February 2011 14:50 (thirteen years ago) link
It'll be interesting where the line between general search and specific apps ends up.~nerd content begins~I was with a friend over the weekend and we considered seeing a movie but didn't know showtimes or what was playing. He pulled out his phone and was starting up Flixster (movie-specific app) and I opened the Google iPhone app and just did a voice search ("movies in ames, iowa"). I ended up getting the results quicker, and with almost as much information, just not in a custom interface
The Google app is pretty much a web browser with some niceties like voice search, so it's not a general browser per se...
― mh, Tuesday, 22 February 2011 15:13 (thirteen years ago) link
Memes and viral videos were cute a few years ago but I'm tired of them now. Memes like the phrase "haters gonna hate" or anything derivative of it makes me want to punch my monitor up to this point. I remember when fan fiction was actively made fun of by all members of Usenet, now all of a sudden it's socially acceptable and people like Cassandra Claire are getting published.
I guess I'm growing out of the internet, it's not the same thing I used back in 1997.
― Is Aware That She Hasn't Replied Much Lately (MintIce), Tuesday, 22 February 2011 15:18 (thirteen years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2CnWs8jDbXo
― Neu! romancer (dayo), Tuesday, 22 February 2011 15:18 (thirteen years ago) link
Sadly that is how I order pizza, too.
― mh, Tuesday, 22 February 2011 15:22 (thirteen years ago) link
all of the semantic stuff is pretty much brand new to me, but yeah, whenever we talk about it with people at work there's always an old grizzled IT pro who is basically like "people have been talking this up for a decade, and nothing ever gets done."
ha, that's me
but this is the second time today I have encountered this phrase so I guess it is getting revived for another go
― it made me wish batman had written an article on mfas (Edward III), Tuesday, 22 February 2011 15:38 (thirteen years ago) link
can somebody explain semantic web to me like I'm a 5-year old - is it like skynet
― Neu! romancer (dayo), Tuesday, 22 February 2011 15:39 (thirteen years ago) link
basically you should be able to navigate the internet without the techy stuff like URLs and search terms, based more on human language
in a way this has been realized since I can type "how do you cook a meatloaf?" into google and get an answer, but I guess it would become the dominant paradigm for getting around on the internet
wondering if the watson shit also has people thinking about the possibilities diff now
― it made me wish batman had written an article on mfas (Edward III), Tuesday, 22 February 2011 15:48 (thirteen years ago) link
also, if you feel like having fries, the internet instantly orders fries delivered to your door for you
― it made me wish batman had written an article on mfas (Edward III), Tuesday, 22 February 2011 15:50 (thirteen years ago) link
I would like some fries right now
― Neu! romancer (dayo), Tuesday, 22 February 2011 15:53 (thirteen years ago) link
*waits patiently*
plz read thread title
I guess the other component of it is that machines on the internet will understand/synthesize the knowledge of other machines on the internet, allowing for automatic aggregation of content without human intervention
if you're feeling sleepy you can read more here obv
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semantic_Web
― it made me wish batman had written an article on mfas (Edward III), Tuesday, 22 February 2011 15:53 (thirteen years ago) link
But isn't the other aspect of the semantic web that the producers of content have to add a lot of structured metadata to everything? Besides the sociological issues (convincing everyone to add metadata) my impression was that the big problem is designing formal languages that are expressive enough to capture a broad swathe of information types while still permitting the kind of computation that semantic web dudes dream about.
(I don't know a whole lot about the semantic web, to be fair)
― Pisle of dogs (seandalai), Tuesday, 22 February 2011 15:56 (thirteen years ago) link
That was an xp I guess.
my issue with the semantic web as a concept is it always seems to be explained in the most tortured language ever, can somebody explain this benefit:
The key element is that the application in context will try to determine the meaning of the text or other data and then create connections for the user. The evolution of Semantic Web will specifically make possible scenarios that were not otherwise, such as allowing customers to share and utilize computerized applications simultaneously in order to cross reference the time frame of activities with documentation and/or data. According to the original vision, the availability of machine-readable metadata would enable automated agents and other software to access the Web more intelligently. The agents would be able to perform tasks automatically and locate related information on behalf of the user.
― it made me wish batman had written an article on mfas (Edward III), Tuesday, 22 February 2011 16:07 (thirteen years ago) link
The idea of a semantically-structured web doesn't necessarily have anything to do with searching or machine learning, although those are two areas that would strongly benefit.
Basically, it's the end-game of separating visual design and content to the point where the entire document -- using "document" as a definition of a full piece of content -- should be machine-parsable. HTML doesn't lend particularly well to this, although some of the newer proposed tags lend well to defining the beginning/end of blog posts, individual article titles within a page, etc.
Things like RDF, or even RSS, define specific tags for dates, author, etc.
It's not that you'll have to add tons of metadata to everything, it's more a matter that the metadata that we're already embedding is not properly structured. Tagging is ok, metatagging is dumb and irrelevant since it's best used internally in organizations (externally, it's historically just for SEO).
― mh, Tuesday, 22 February 2011 16:11 (thirteen years ago) link
Edward, I think they're trying to say that I should be able to look up blog posts in a specific timeframe and see facebook posts/twitter posts by the same person easily, all using clearly-defined semantic data (standardized date tags).
― mh, Tuesday, 22 February 2011 16:12 (thirteen years ago) link
see, that seems like a retro-fitted explanation to me, since this social network stuff wasn't really on the horizon in 2001 when the semantic web was conceptualized
it's like a theory that's so abstruse and generalized that you can look at anything and call it semantic web
like is this really semantic web? finding stuff to put in yr shopping cart quicker at bestbuy?
http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9209118/The_semantic_Web_gets_down_to_business
― it made me wish batman had written an article on mfas (Edward III), Tuesday, 22 February 2011 16:21 (thirteen years ago) link
one of the big aha moments I had recently was seeing how the droid handles contact management - aggregating your friends' facebook/gmail/twitter/flickr/whatever to a single identity so you can engage with them holistically
that seemed like a big breakthrough in communication/notification etc and something long the lines of the example mh gave, but that seems like an extension of social networking, the internet actor as discrete content aggregator, not some 2001 metatagging type stuff
― it made me wish batman had written an article on mfas (Edward III), Tuesday, 22 February 2011 16:28 (thirteen years ago) link
I'm retrofitting it in that I'm mentioning current services, but it's really the general idea.
Things like grafting RDF tags on to HTML (like the example on the semantic web wikipedia entry) is useful for search engine crawling, but it blows compared to specialized feeds. Microformats are nice, but I don't even think Apple has detection in Safari, which is funny considering their mail client sniffs for events and contacts and the microformats for those pretty much say "this is a contact".
Much of the semantic web data is available, it's just in proprietary data feeds via API.
― mh, Tuesday, 22 February 2011 16:32 (thirteen years ago) link
Edward, I know they're hammering out issues, but did you notice any duplication of contacts or weird guesses in the Droid aggregation? You're going to run into that issue anywhere that there isn't a unique identifier (like email address or phone number) that is shared between services, but the point of a semantic web with standards is that you could just point to your page of contacts on any of those services and they'd either be in the same format or at least tagged with standard tags that your device would recognize. As it is, someone at Google just programmed a different adapter for each service.
Note that I'm using "tags" in the XML sense, not in the metatagging sense.
― mh, Tuesday, 22 February 2011 16:37 (thirteen years ago) link
Note that I'm just describing semantic web ideals, here. I don't think we'll ever see anything near universal support because lock-in and in-house "innovation" are always going to stomp on the benefits of having an open format.
― mh, Tuesday, 22 February 2011 16:39 (thirteen years ago) link
slightly glib observation but seems relevant:
http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2009/05/the-web-browser-address-bar-is-the-new-command-line.html
― caek, Tuesday, 22 February 2011 16:59 (thirteen years ago) link
the big problem is designing formal languages that are expressive enough to capture a broad swathe of information types while still permitting the kind of computation that semantic web dudes dream about
that's always been my assumption too. something could happen where domain-specific taxonomies get traction, and then some of those get interoperability and we have some centers of gravity ... but i don't see what would drive that, especially with everyone trying to lock up their users.
― just woke up (lukas), Tuesday, 22 February 2011 17:09 (thirteen years ago) link
micro sofft thinks the future is clouds lol
― am0n, Tuesday, 22 February 2011 18:45 (thirteen years ago) link
people get espn and the weather on their phone and suddenly they forget that you can get that stuff on regular computers or even the television― El Tomboto, Tuesday, February 22, 2011 2:50 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark
― El Tomboto, Tuesday, February 22, 2011 2:50 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark
fyi currently US smartphone percentage is something like 30% to say nothing of the rest of the earth which tends to be considerably behind the first world
i'm just sayin
― HOOS the master?? STEEN NUFF (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Wednesday, 23 February 2011 06:08 (thirteen years ago) link
*smartphone PENETRATION percentage
probably higher in east Asia which is where the 21st century is
just sayin
― Neu! romancer (dayo), Wednesday, 23 February 2011 06:41 (thirteen years ago) link
ya'll making out like Twitter and Facebook are here for good, but you just know in five years time everyone will have moved on, and what they'll have moved on to will start off as an underground, non-app supported thing, launched from a straight-up browser. It's always the way of these things.
― Yossarian's sense of humour (NotEnough), Wednesday, 23 February 2011 07:36 (thirteen years ago) link
xp, also higher in europe where mobile phones happened before like 2006 or whenever they first arrived in the U.S.
― caek, Wednesday, 23 February 2011 09:42 (thirteen years ago) link
"It's always the way of these things."
Yeah totes remember when this happened in the 70s.
― Samuel (a hoy hoy), Wednesday, 23 February 2011 09:42 (thirteen years ago) link
30% smartphone "penetration" is pretty staggering considering the first smartphone that wasn't a piece of shit was introduced in 2007
― progressive cuts (Tracer Hand), Wednesday, 23 February 2011 10:02 (thirteen years ago) link
Thing starts underground, becomes popular, monitised, adopted by the mainstream, taste-makers move on. This is hardly a new phenomenon. xp
― Yossarian's sense of humour (NotEnough), Wednesday, 23 February 2011 10:13 (thirteen years ago) link
Yes but some things become so ubiquitus that they just don't move on. Something will have to be pretty fucking special to provide what an alternative to not only us but our parents in what Facebook currently does.
― Samuel (a hoy hoy), Wednesday, 23 February 2011 10:21 (thirteen years ago) link
Twitter isn't yet part of everyone in the worlds daily lives, so yeah I can see something taking it over.
― Samuel (a hoy hoy), Wednesday, 23 February 2011 10:22 (thirteen years ago) link