(shrugs) I can't see anything in that second quote that contradicts anything I said in the first one. The second quote, afaics, was about non-Libyans who form opinions on what the protestors should have done. The first quote declined to form such an opinion.
But we live two different worlds, you and I, and it is clear we shall never marry.
― Aimless, Thursday, 31 March 2011 18:34 (thirteen years ago) link
dont know why so many of you have opinions about this, seems a lot easier to sit back and form an opinion later after its clear whos right― max, Monday, March 21, 2011 3:07 AM (1 week ago) Bookmark
― max, Monday, March 21, 2011 3:07 AM (1 week ago) Bookmark
overlooked truth bomb
― patrice wil$on is my favorite rapper (history mayne), Thursday, 31 March 2011 18:35 (thirteen years ago) link
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2011/03/26/111109/new-rebel-leader-spent-much-of.html
"Libyan rebel leader spent much of past 20 years in suburban Virginia"
Since coming to the United States in the early 1990s, Hifter lived in suburban Virginia outside Washington, D.C. Badr said he was unsure exactly what Hifter did to support himself, and that Hifter primarily focused on helping his large family.
― this country is domed (Hunt3r), Thursday, 31 March 2011 18:51 (thirteen years ago) link
keep thinking "you know who else lived in northern VA? HIFTER!"
― this country is domed (Hunt3r), Thursday, 31 March 2011 18:52 (thirteen years ago) link
― patrice wil$on is my favorite rapper (history mayne), Thursday, March 31, 2011 2:35 PM (39 minutes ago)
i think like 3 people itt have expressed opinions tbf
― kl0p's son (k3vin k.), Thursday, 31 March 2011 19:29 (thirteen years ago) link
huh i wonder was mr hifter was doing in suburban virginia? cant really think of any major institutions or complexes located there
― max, Thursday, 31 March 2011 19:38 (thirteen years ago) link
i know it's funny and everything but let's not get crazy with this CIA stuff just because an asylee lives in northern virginia
― goole, Thursday, 31 March 2011 19:40 (thirteen years ago) link
just a bit of spycraft, lets be cool
― max, Thursday, 31 March 2011 19:43 (thirteen years ago) link
i mean, i wouldn't be surprised, but come on
― goole, Thursday, 31 March 2011 19:44 (thirteen years ago) link
In 1975, during the Fall of Saigon, Nguyễn fled South Vietnam. He moved to the United States, and opened a pizza restaurant at Rolling Valley Mall, in the Washington, D.C. suburb of Burke, Virginia. In 1991, Nguyễn was forced into retirement when his identity was publicly disclosed. Photographer Eddie Adams recalled that on his last visit to the pizza shop, he had seen written on a toilet wall, "We know who you are, fucker".[5]
― goole, Thursday, 31 March 2011 19:49 (thirteen years ago) link
Taking the position that Libya could not possibly become any worse than it was, say, just six months ago is not credible ... this quote shows no grasp of the possibilities for bloody mayhem now that bombs and bullets have been added to the mix.of course im aware libya post-uprising could likely be worse in the short term, or hell, even long-term, than libya under gadaffi. that's the same with pretty much every revolution ever, american, french, whatever. you and tracer are saying no-one should ever have one, afaict. im very much aware of the possibilities for bloody mayhem, but the bullets, for the millionth time, were added to the mix by gadaffi. he had unarmed protesters shot.i take it that in your view they should not have protested, because a violent response was inevitable? would be really interested to know what, from your vantage point in the post-revolutionary west, the libyans who rose up should have done instead.― patrice wil$on is my favorite rapper (history mayne), Thursday, March 31, 2011 7:54 AM (11 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
of course im aware libya post-uprising could likely be worse in the short term, or hell, even long-term, than libya under gadaffi. that's the same with pretty much every revolution ever, american, french, whatever. you and tracer are saying no-one should ever have one, afaict. im very much aware of the possibilities for bloody mayhem, but the bullets, for the millionth time, were added to the mix by gadaffi. he had unarmed protesters shot.
i take it that in your view they should not have protested, because a violent response was inevitable? would be really interested to know what, from your vantage point in the post-revolutionary west, the libyans who rose up should have done instead.
― patrice wil$on is my favorite rapper (history mayne), Thursday, March 31, 2011 7:54 AM (11 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
invoking revolution is misleading here. events in libya stopped being revolution (in the context you're talking about) when the u.n. got involved. it then became a sort of assisted insurrection, with the focus on the nations trying to oust q/gfi, not on the presumed 'revolutionaries'
― more than a Bale-sized gulf (whatever), Thursday, 31 March 2011 20:11 (thirteen years ago) link
dont know why so many of you have opinions about this, seems a lot easier to sit back and form an opinion later after its clear whos right ― max, Monday, March 21, 2011 3:07 AM (1 week ago) Bookmarkoverlooked truth bomb― patrice wil$on is my favorite rapper (history mayne), Thursday, March 31, 2011 6:35 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
― patrice wil$on is my favorite rapper (history mayne), Thursday, March 31, 2011 6:35 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
can't recall the famous quote max's post paraphrases (sorry bad syntax etc). but good quote and good post.
― more than a Bale-sized gulf (whatever), Thursday, 31 March 2011 20:18 (thirteen years ago) link
don't worry Moammar, Louis' has got yr back!
― in my world of loose geirs (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 31 March 2011 22:46 (thirteen years ago) link
j@gg3r?
― timbo slice (D-40), Thursday, 31 March 2011 23:15 (thirteen years ago) link
well him too
― call all destroyer, Thursday, 31 March 2011 23:16 (thirteen years ago) link
I still can't tell if that "wait and see" truthbomb is supposed to be a joke or note.
― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 31 March 2011 23:19 (thirteen years ago) link
best to wait and see
― in my world of loose geirs (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 31 March 2011 23:20 (thirteen years ago) link
Don't Worry Jagger (Moammar's Only Looking For Your Hand in the Snow)
― Hey Look More Than Five Years Has Passed And You Have A C (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 31 March 2011 23:22 (thirteen years ago) link
― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, March 31, 2011 11:19 PM (13 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
basically = 'boy im glad i didnt have to make that decision' right
― timbo slice (D-40), Thursday, 31 March 2011 23:33 (thirteen years ago) link
i feel like NATO is helping the rebels just enough for this to go on for fucking years.
― 40% chill and 100% negative (Tracer Hand), Friday, 1 April 2011 09:26 (thirteen years ago) link
Speaking of Bosnia, their slightly odd ethno-political system still causing problems : http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/12933096.stm
― textbook blows on the head (dowd), Friday, 1 April 2011 09:42 (thirteen years ago) link
Coalition air strike 'killed seven civilians'
.. in rebel held territory, so assume the doctor is not pro-Gadaffi?
― Tom D (Tom D.), Friday, 1 April 2011 11:59 (thirteen years ago) link
A small price to pay for freedom. Freedom isn't free! Had they not been killed, Qaddafi may have killed them.
― Josh in Chicago, Friday, 1 April 2011 13:11 (thirteen years ago) link
An aide to one of Q's sons defected to the UK.
And since its Friday, I believe there were more protests in various parts of the world after services, in Syria:
Al-Jazeera, and other media, report that so far, the government is using only tear gas, water cannon and people in plainclothes armed with sticks to try to subdue the protesters
― curmudgeon, Friday, 1 April 2011 13:46 (thirteen years ago) link
The new kinder and gentler Syria
― curmudgeon, Friday, 1 April 2011 13:47 (thirteen years ago) link
http://images1.cpcache.com/product/109943681v2_480x480_Front.jpg
― light...sweet...crude (Sanpaku), Friday, 1 April 2011 14:07 (thirteen years ago) link
xp: 'killed seven civilians'
Note the airstrike hit a pro-Gaddafi ammunition truck. The secondary explosion destroyed two nearby houses. Not entirely comparable to cluster bombing Kosovo refugees by accident.
― light...sweet...crude (Sanpaku), Friday, 1 April 2011 14:09 (thirteen years ago) link
At least one dead now reported in Syria
― curmudgeon, Friday, 1 April 2011 14:18 (thirteen years ago) link
If NATO start attacking civilians, will NATO hit NATO with aerial attacks too?
― and the hint of parp (ledge), Friday, 1 April 2011 15:11 (thirteen years ago) link
u guys should check this book 'catch 22' its rlly great
― timbo slice (D-40), Friday, 1 April 2011 15:11 (thirteen years ago) link
you don't have to be crazy to bomb libya, but it helps!
― and the hint of parp (ledge), Friday, 1 April 2011 15:15 (thirteen years ago) link
So author Jeremy Scahill (from the far left) is mocking the Libyan rebels as a small ragtag bunch similar to the contras that Reagan backed, while some on the far right are convinced they're all Al queda and will turn on the US next....
Scahill has a long article in the Nation on Yemen and the US battles with Al Queda there. The comment section discusses his disagreements with liberal MSNBC host Ed Schultz re Libya.
http://www.thenation.com/article/159578/dangerous-us-game-yemen?comment_sort=ASC#comments
― curmudgeon, Friday, 1 April 2011 16:37 (thirteen years ago) link
Oh FFS North Africans don't want to start Al Q groups.
― nights of d. cameron (suzy), Friday, 1 April 2011 16:39 (thirteen years ago) link
I read Scahill's book on Blackwater and admired it and him, until I peeked at his Facebook photos and saw photos of him in the late nineties hanging out with Fidel. Unironically.
― Hey Look More Than Five Years Has Passed And You Have A C (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 1 April 2011 16:40 (thirteen years ago) link
US ending air combat role
― in my world of loose geirs (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 1 April 2011 16:44 (thirteen years ago) link
Whatever that means. Directly, you mean, since I assume we will continue to supply intel and whatnot.
― Josh in Chicago, Friday, 1 April 2011 16:53 (thirteen years ago) link
I think it means we aren't gonna fly planes and drop bombs
― in my world of loose geirs (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 1 April 2011 16:54 (thirteen years ago) link
from the far left (bill o'reilly voice)
― kl0p's son (k3vin k.), Friday, 1 April 2011 16:56 (thirteen years ago) link
It was my understanding that there were numerous Libyans w/Al Qaeda in Afghanistan though that was said to reflect the futility of operations in Libya as much as anything.
― Si tu parles, tu meurs. Si tu te tais, tu meurs. Alors, dis et (Michael White), Friday, 1 April 2011 16:58 (thirteen years ago) link
It was my understanding that "Al Qaeda is secretly running the Libyan revolution/arming them with Islamist strings attached" was basically a unsubstantiated rumor taken seriously by the likes of Alex Jones and George Noory...
― I love my puppy -- and she loves me! (Viceroy), Friday, 1 April 2011 17:23 (thirteen years ago) link
yeah i mean no one besides complete idiots believes they're "secretly running" the whole thing or whatever absolute terms you'd like to use - the makeup of the_rebels is still v much unclear tho obv which is (one of the many reasons) why the US is hesitant to arm them
― kl0p's son (k3vin k.), Friday, 1 April 2011 18:15 (thirteen years ago) link
Oh FFS North Africans don't want to start Al Q groups.― nights of d. cameron (suzy), Friday, April 1, 2011 5:39 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark
― nights of d. cameron (suzy), Friday, April 1, 2011 5:39 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark
eh? dunno how they feel about OG al-q, but violent islamists have been known to inhabit the region (and indeed inspired osama's merry band), and could take on the brand. don't think they are 'running tings' but it's a factor in the equation.
― ban max (history mayne), Friday, 1 April 2011 18:39 (thirteen years ago) link
TS: an administration that directly and openly funded terrorism against the west vs a rebellion that may or may not (while accepting aid from the west) end up rebelling violently against the west.
― textbook blows on the head (dowd), Friday, 1 April 2011 20:11 (thirteen years ago) link
i keep forgetting everything wrt libya fits into these neat binaries
― kl0p's son (k3vin k.), Friday, 1 April 2011 20:14 (thirteen years ago) link
Het, if the world doesn't fit into binaries then those in power acr as if it does, which is kind of the same thing. I mean, any weapons we give the rebels will be be less (or equal) to what Gaddafi would have if he wins.
― textbook blows on the head (dowd), Friday, 1 April 2011 20:16 (thirteen years ago) link
The US seems more worried about the Al Queda unit (AQAP) operating in Yemen and what will happen if (when at this point, maybe) Yemen's head of state leaves. Scahill thinks that the US' single-minded focus on AQAP without any support for bread and butter economic issues there has backfired for the US.
Will Syria eventually succeed Iran-style in supressing dissent?From the NY Times: Thousands of protesters took to the streets in cities around Syria on Friday to chants of “We want freedom” and security forces responded with tear gas, electrified batons, clubs and bullets, killing at least seven people, according to activists, residents and a Syrian human rights group.
demonstrators had chanted “Freedom is not a foreign conspiracy or call to sectarian division,” in response to the Wednesday speech in which President Assad accused protesters of advancing “an Israeli agenda” against Syria and said they had been “duped” or were conspiring to destroy the nation.
Syrian state media on Friday reported that imams and prayer leaders had repeated President Assad’s warning about foreign conspiracies.
― curmudgeon, Friday, 1 April 2011 20:18 (thirteen years ago) link
demonstrators had chanted “Freedom is not a foreign conspiracy or call to sectarian division,” i
It probably flows better in Arabic
― curmudgeon, Friday, 1 April 2011 20:20 (thirteen years ago) link
haha
― kl0p's son (k3vin k.), Friday, 1 April 2011 20:25 (thirteen years ago) link
Do the Libyan rebels want a ceasefire now because they don't expect NATO to be as agressive as the US in bombing?
ABC news:
Coalition forces "captured all of what we may call the low-hanging fruit, the armored columns, those targets in obvious positions on open roads, sitting on open terrain," Shashank Joshi of the British think tank Royal United Services Institute told Reuters.
"What we may now be left with is heavy weaponry on the ground that's more difficult to find and isolate because it is next to urban targets," he said.
Cordesman said the dynamic could pose a challenge for NATO and European militaries which are not as well equipped as the U.S. with aerial surveillance technologies
― curmudgeon, Friday, 1 April 2011 20:50 (thirteen years ago) link
NATO may have accidentally bombed the rebels. Meanwhile, hundreds of pro-democracy rebels in Ivory Coast massacred for trying to take down their own democracy-resisting strongman. Better keep those jet engines running, right? Especially if we want to keep global cocoa prices down.
― Josh in Chicago, Saturday, 2 April 2011 17:31 (thirteen years ago) link