US POLITICS SPRING 2011: Let's just call off this country.

Some people vote swapped in order to get Gore votes in key states- I think there was a funding issue for Nader, too?

I don't think progressives as a whole have jumped ship yet, obama's image is pretty tarnished but the right is much scarier than it was in the nader years. maybe if romney gets the nom the prog left will feel a little bit more comfortable.

That's why the Republican nomination will be so fascinating, and something of a mirror image of the Democrats in '72: can they nominate one of those boring Bush I types their Tea Pary wing despises, someone who could actually beat Obama, or will the revolt from within be too great? I think that'll depend in large part where Obama and the economy stands in the early months of 2012.

x-post Yes there were hanging chad votes,etc. in Florida but if Nader voters in Florida had gone to Gore, we wouldn't have to have worried about trying to count all the votes that the Supreme Court prevented from being counted.

I am worried about the gang of 6 in the Senate. These moderate Dems and Conservative Republicans are seen by the chattering elites as pushing the sensible alternative to Ryan--very slight tax increases with big cuts and changes to Social Security. But even the Post's AJ Dionne (whose friendly talk with Brooks on NPR irritates Soto) sees the Gang of 6 as giving in to Republicans and not a plan that reflects the ideal Democrat position that the poor and elderly should not have to take the fall because of Wall Street, Bush rich people tax cuts, 2 plus wars, Bush prescription drug company plan, etc.

whose friendly talk with Brooks on NPR irritates Soto)

Last week they apparently heard me and swapped Brooks for Ramesh Ponnoru!

weigel http://www.slate.com/blogs/blogs/weigel/archive/2011/04/09/the-shutdown-wrap-boehner-wins-austerity-wins-and-the-social-conservatives-go-home-with-a-participant-trophy.aspx

Democrats spent months predicting that Boehner would have trouble controlling his new Tea Party members. They spent this week saying he had to put the Tea Party “horse back in the barn,” as Dick Durbin said. Well, there’s a deal – the implication is that he put the horse back in the barn. If the Republicans would have been blamed for a shutdown, it follows that they get credit for a shutdown being avoided.

Rep. Mike Pence introduced the rider to ban Title X funds from going to Planned Parenthood. It would have saved around $363 million, but it was anathema to Democrats. So it served two purposes -- a bargaining chit for the coming debate, and a way to shift the Overton Window on the abortion debate.

Tonight, Democrats got the rider stripped, handing a massive victory to the pro-choice movement. So – spitballing before we get exact numbers – Pence’s $363 million was worth an extra $637 million. That’s a pretty good deal for economic conservatives.

I don't think progressives as a whole have jumped ship yet, obama's image is pretty tarnished but the right is much scarier than it was in the nader years. maybe if romney gets the nom the prog left will feel a little bit more comfortable.

― iatee, Saturday, 9 April 2011 15:21 (1 hour ago)

Romney is going to have to move very far to the right to get the nomination (he already has).

Obama Job Approval (Fox News)
Approve 49.0%
Disapprove 47.0%

Republican Party Job Approval (Fox News)
Approve 35.0%
Disapprove 58.0%

Americans just want a divided government that doesn't actually do anything, I guess.

I agree, romney's gonna have to make himself look crazy, but he's still got a resume that screams "I'm probably not so crazy as far as contemporary republicans go"

I think, if anything, the gop probably has more to worry about w/ 3rd party candidates this time around.

corporate america wants a divided government that doesn't do anything. what 'americans' "want" is increasingly irrelevant

xp

i dont know that im willing to bet on it, but i think romney will probably take the nom. my guess is that obama will beat him if the economy is good enough? i dunno, a lot can (and will) change in the next 18 months.

is it wrong that i think "the economy will eventually get better in the long run regardless so keeping planned parenthood funded for symbolic purposes and keeping the powers of the EPA for both symbolic and real world purposes is worth it?"

also i think all the talk about who will be seen as having 'won' the showdown is irrelevant & won't be a factor come 2012

looking forward to the gamefaqs walkthrough of this election

is it wrong that i think "the economy will eventually get better in the long run regardless

yup, it is wrong to think this

I will be interested in seeing what compromises Obama will agree to in the next 18 months re the budget, debt ceiling, Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security, and whether there will be much if any growth in the economy

My $0.02.

Political power often rests on the perception of that power, much like a poker hand. Obama's emphasis on compromise and getting something done speaks directly to his indifference to accruing personal political power. As a personality trait, this is a lot less pathological than being power-hungry, but what's missing seems to be an agenda he is passionate about implementing, requiring him to seek the power to put it into effect. Instead he just keeps feeding the Republican beast in the hope that this is a proper product of an idealized, orderly political process.

I can get behind that analysis.

btw I'm partly wrong: lots of Corner-ites are pissed off at Boehner.

I expect their presumption is that, if he got that much, he could have got more.

It's a beautiful scorcher of a day in Florida, so if you want to take five minutes and read this and its comments.

is it wrong that i think "the economy will eventually get better in the long run regardless

yup, it is wrong to think this

also, i'm less concerned with how this affects the 2012 election and more of how it will affect the debt ceiling and FY12 budget battles.

wow, some of those nro comment section stooges have such twisted priorities it's hard to believe we live in the same country

xp

pretty much agree with ezra klein this time that economic fundamentals (not the markets obv) will drive obama's political future. i can't imagine austerity improving on this shit, so i think dems will wish the worked a lot harder on painting austerity as bad, and this deal as very bad for average americans.

the fact that teabaggers are unhappy isnt evidence of any success here in terms of anything afaict. i think 12 will be the mirror of 08, this time favoring gop- as long as the gop doesnt nominate somebody below the gwb-line of inanity, they can take it.

most of the gop falls under the gwb-line at this point

What happened to all the EPA cuts? Did Dems compromise on that stuff?

I haven't been following politics but if the tea party becomes a viable 3rd party then I don't see why we can't have Paul/Ventura in a viable 4th party. I would love that :3

the conversation on the topic may be stale now, but i was def. someone who Morbz would say was "bullying Nader voters." at the time, i didn't think that the country or the Democratic Party were so far gone that a Nader vote was necessary -- plus i really believed that Gore would've been a very good President. i still hold those opinions.

this time around, though, i'm not so inclined to badger anyone voting third-party against Obama b/c the rot within the country and the Democratic Party is too pronounced to be ignored any longer. in fact, i could see myself voting third party myself.

What happened to all the EPA cuts? Did Dems compromise on that stuff?

they dropped the EPA rider. PHEW. for now. until the next budget.

lorax, I have incontestable evidence that ron paul and jesse ventura did 9/11

that said, i do think that Obama will be reelected and that the economy will most likely continue to "recover." the economic recovery, though, is going to be painfully slow and it may be a while before we get back to where we were before the financial world went to hell. a late 1990s economy def. ain't in the cards as far as i can tell.

xpost: a Ron Paul/Jesse Ventura campaign isn't one that would get my vote. it might get my laugh tho'.

lorax being a paul fan puts his trutherism into some perspective at least

Not sure if it's been discussed already but this is an interesting theory - that the Republicans have privately given up on the White House in 2012 and are concentrating on the Senate.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2011/apr/09/us-elections-2012-congress

I expect their presumption is that, if he got that much, he could have got more.

― Aimless, Saturday, April 9, 2011 6:32 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

but doesnt this logic work in basically any situation. like, you're arguing that 'its a bad deal, but that means they think it could have been even worse' & yet you can say this no matter what the deal turned out to be

The logic of politics and the logic of NRO pundits does not resemble logic as you understand it.

1) doesn't mean it's wrong all the time
2) you're questioning the logic of the tea party

xp

"logic" doesn't belong within 10 inches of "tea party"

Would Obama get yalls' vote again? He might just be more fascist than W. Bush.

i was questioning aimless' logic not the tea party

aimless was trying to figure out their logic, not give his own

xpost i'm having trouble getting past this part of the article, lorax:

This post discusses fascism as an appropriate term to describe current US political process. As a teacher of Advanced Placement US Government, I agree.

The incorrect use of 'fascist' + "AP government high school teacher" = dumb take on serious problem.

This was commented on the other day: http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/04/07/justice-memo-upholds-libya-strikes/

I don't know shit about Ron Paul except that he's supposed to be Grass Roots (I think).

Libya strikes was overstepping our boundaries for a millionth time. We need to fix our own fucked up country before we mess around with other countries.

I wouldn't stop reading my article just because an AP governemnt teacher wrote it.

someone needs to take a hard look at some of these people w/n the Justice Dep't. the spirit of Haldeman lives on there.

i just convinced my mom to vote non-republican in 2012. we don't talk politics that often because usually she just laughs and says "i don't know what's going on", but the winning argument was something along the lines of "yeah mom, the republicans pretty much hate the federal government, and some of them have even said they want to abolish the EPA entirely." she was like "really?? why??", and i was like "lol it's a long story", and she said "well i won't be voting for THEM next time, sheesh!"

\_o_/

Obama's emphasis on compromise and getting something done speaks directly to his indifference to accruing personal political power.

If this were true, then maybe he shouldn't be running for, you know, the presidency, literally the apex of accruing personal political power.

obviously
running for president vs. what you actually do as a president

can some democratic politician please please please capitalize on this bullshit?

http://www.kitsapsun.com/news/2011/apr/09/tom-philpott-budget-panel-may-cut-care-for-13/

The House Budget Committee, chaired by Rep. Paul Ryan (R-Wis.), has told a veterans' group it is studying a plan to save $6 billion annually in VA health care costs by canceling enrollment of any veteran who doesn't have a service-related medical condition and is not poor.

Do you guys envisioning this economic "recovery" not think 2008 (and the bubble that preceded it) marked a sea change? My little sphere in which I've been carving out my living is now operating on an ENTIRELY different agenda, and I'm no longer going to match my earnings of 2000-09 in the same fashion. Shittier salaries with shittier benefits for many/most of us are the new reality.