Should I buy an Apple laptop?

"one of the things about playing golf is that if you want to be taken seriously you need to spend as much money as possible on everything"

doing high-or-even-decent quality recording or mixing on a computer is an expensive proposition,

truthiest of truth bombs

If a power user is one who has more computer than he needs, I'm guilty as charged.

expensive is a relative concept here esoj. libcrypt seems to mean "low five figures" - I personally believe if you can't get decent-to-very-good recording and mixing out of a USD $4K setup then maybe you just shouldn't be making music, but what do I know.

You can make good music with a $4 cassette recorder you get at Salvation Army as long as you embrace the aesthetic.

you're absolutely right tom. i have the additional requirements of needing a buttload of inputs as i mostly record three or more piece bands playing together. but if you need only two inputs at once you're laughing for that sort of cash

that's a very good point. if they're playing together, though, my instinct would be to mix down to two channels on an analog rig using headphones like it were live. I realize that is also a terrifically stupid/horribly imperfect solution.

I think you guys need to reread 2nd-to-last paragraph above.

Dan, you may wish to budget for one of these:

http://www.seelectronics.com/rf.html

I'm going to get a Macbook (probably not Pro). I was thinking about just going to the Apple store and picking the best deal among their refurbs. Anybody have a better recommendation -- ebay, craigslist, etc?

Apple refurb is best 'cause you can get fresh Applecare onnit.

hey, is this a good deal or just an okay deal? it would be for my gf, who is starting grad school and just needs something stable (won't be doing much besides writing papers, youtube, and itunes).

15 inch Apple PowerBook G4 laptop -- $350.00

1.5 GHz, 1 GB DDR SDRAM, Superdrive (burns DVDs and CDs), 40 GB hard drive, beautiful condition, good battery life, never needed a repair. Comes with Mac OS X Tiger 10.4.11, power cord, and original install discs.

It'll do ok, but it is a bit of a dead end, being a G4. It better have word etc. loaded on it because you'll have a hard time finding software for it. If it were $200 I'd be more inclined but it seems a lot for something 4-5 years old.

Once she puts her songs on there and a few videos that 40GB is going to feel very very small. And 1GB RAM is not enough for having say, iTunes, iPhoto, Word, Mail open and Safari playing a Youtube video at the same time, at least not on a G4. it's relatively cheap to upgrade the memory and the HD but that's about $100-$200 extra you're looking at. So I'd ask for less.

But I'm typing this on a G4 Powerbook that still does me perfectly well (after upgrading everything to the max).

thanks guys. is it reasonable to swap out/upgrade the memory & hard drive yourself, or do you have to take it somewhere? (i've haven't fucked with a mac since i was like 12)

iirc it is a real pain to swap out the hard drive on the G4 powerbooks; I did it with my 12" and it involved many tiny screws

have a look

for $350 you might be able to pick up an early Intel-chip powered macbook, the plastic ones, and it'd be a lot more future-proof (plus swapping HDs on those is much, much easier)

Jordan: the single best Mac I've ever owned is my 12" G4 PowerBook but that's largely down to the fact I've had it now for donkeys' years and it's a dependable workhorse that I've lugged about all over the place and have always been able to rely on.

But ... compared to this (also wonderful) iMac on which I'm writing now, it feels painfully slow; 10.4.11 (which it's running) lacks a lot of nice productivity tools (eg Spaces) which I take for granted now; I'm starting to realise that there's a lot of stuff it just won't run (eg the new version of NetNewsWire); basically, although I love the thing like a child, I wouldn't pay $350 for it. Like Ed says, $200 would be a much, much better price.

I am trying to convince my wife we should get an Apple laptop to work on musical endeavors (her website, my idle musical ideas, etc).

- Which machines should I be looking at if my parameters are "better-than-decent"?
- How much, realistically, should I expect to spend for a better-than-decent machine?
- How useful is the out-of-the-box software? What should I consider upgrading and what's the cost for that?
- Anyone have experiencing adding a Mac to a Window-based network? How complicated is that to manage?

I am revisiting this! I was looking at MacBook Pros but the lowest-level one I'd consider is the 15" 2.66 GHz processor one, which is already $1999. Conversely, I could get a quad-core 2.66 GHz 27" iMac for $1999. The screen real eastate is going to be critical to me re: looking at sheet music/sequencers/etc so I'm currently leaning in the direction of the iMac since it seems to give a whole lot more machine for the $$. Anyone have pros or cons to add to this line of thinking?

(as an aside, how easy is it to upgrade RAM in an iMac?)

I dunno but my mom just started using one for some kind of music composition/manipulation software and she is suddenly IN WUV and wants one -- I've been asking for a mac laptop for like 10 years but have my parents ever bought me a computer?? NNNOOOOOOOO.

HI DERE the upgrade is easy.

if you don't need to take it anywhere i'd say go with the imac for sure.

ya if you dont NEED a lappie the desktop models will always offer more screen real estate, RAM, HD space, ports etc for the $$

I was originally thinking laptop because I don't plan on giving up my PC desktop and it might be easier to set up music stuff somewhere else in my place if based around a laptop (plus easier to take with me and work on stuff "on-the-go" if I so desire); however, I started cleaning up my office space this weekend and, if I move my printer, I will have a perfect place to put an iMac that will be totally accessible and make sense as far as building a music space is concerned, plus it's not like trying to toe around an iMac is like toting around a Dell desktop machine so there could be limited portability if necessary.

very tempted to buy this this week actually

btw is there a practical difference between 4x2GB RAM and 2x4GB RAM, like are Macs built suck that it makes more effective/efficient use of larger RAM chips?

the only real difference is that 2x4GB will probably cost more, but would leave you with two empty slots in case you want to add memory in the future.

I'm sure you know this but just in case: if you're upgrading your RAM, do not buy it from apple, they're extortionate

I likely want to go to 16GB at some point but, for what I want to do initially, 4-8GB should be plenty.

wtf is it with me and typos today btw

I absolutely love my 24' iMac and would recommend one to anybody. However if you want to get a 27' I might wait until the next batch/update - there have been some display issues apparently, though like with many Apple hardware problems, it's hard to tell how widespread the problem really is (actually serious or just enough on the internet to make a stink). And you know, first generation of anything Apple... (sorry to be that wet blanket)

Hmmm...

Not being super int tune with the Apple product cycle, where do I look to figure out when the next update will come out?

New MacBooks are expected (and somewhat overdue).

It's always good to check the Mac Buyer's Guide, where they keep track of Apple's release cycles.

So a few things:

1. Super super SUPER pissed that apparently you can't buy the 2.8GHz Quad-Core Intel Core i7 at the store; fuck you and your "baseline configurations", your Boylston St store is fucking massive and should be able to support this kind of thing. The sales guy I talked actually said "we don't have the tools to do that" which made me go "uh this store is somewhere between 20K-25K square feet, what do you MEAN you can't do that type of thing here". This is the type of thing that makes me scream "style over substance" at a lot of Mac products; you can usually find about a bazillion different processor options on various PCs at Best Buy/Micro Center.

2. The screen issues are terrifying. I am imagining the fury I would unleash if I dropped $2500+ on this thing and it's all jacked up and no one really wants to see that.

3. I really only need the 21-inch one as far as screen size goes but the processor I want only comes with the 27-inch one, which after seeing it in person is kind of fuck-off huge, to the point where I was a little like "lol actually I am very satisfied with the size of my penis, no compensation necessary". (see also bullet #1)

Also lolled at inept salesdude's failed Jedi mind trick re: "well some ppl buy a MacBook Pro and a big monitor" right after I told him I was switching focus to an iMac because of processing power and screen size per dollar. It was very funny because I basically kept quoting stuff I read off the website at him and asking "is that correct?" to which he was like "well let me look that up... yes". I was really hoping he could give me a loophole around the processor thing and he couldn't, which you know boo hiss etc.

I am imagining the fury I would unleash if I dropped $2500+ on this thing and it's all jacked up and no one really wants to see that.

it would make an awesome thread, you have to admit

apple store people pretty much blow; buy online imo

yeah i would check dealmac and macmall for, um, deals

apple stores are only useful if you want to get something repaired and don't want to wait at home for the UPS guy, or you need a baseline iBook NOW. geniuses notwithstanding, the employees tend to be morons, and, yes, they maintain a very streamlined stock.

if you drop $2500 on is and the screen is busted then can't you just get a refund? i don't get it. or are you worried about three years down the line? (buy applecare, by the way.)

The only screen issues I've heard of are immediately apparent out of the box, so I don't think it's anything you'd have to worry about in the long term.

I was worried about it cropping up later, yes.

Also, tbh, I'm a little worried about the box being delivered to my house and my wife going "OKAY WTF IS WRONG WITH YOU" when she sees how large it is. I need a large screen but I don't need one that large!

Can I do financing via DealMac and MacMall? (willing to look this up, just wondering if anyone knows offhand; I am currently credit card lite by choice and need to know if I should be prepared to shell out $$$ up front, as that will greatly reduce the spree aspect of this purchase)

there was one guy who got in the news trying to submit a class action suit after his imac g5 screen failed after three years or something. apparently the problem with his class action was the class was essentially just him. he tried to include "every owner of an imac in the U.S." without asking them. got thrown out iirc.

dan: apple hardware problems tend to get a lot of attention because they are pretty much the biggest selling brand of home computer these days, with a very high media profile compared to, say dell or lenevo, and expectations are very high. i think the fact that there are only about ten configurations on sale at any time tends to contribute to the echo chamber too; if your lenevo xbt670A-SD fails in some way, you're unlikely to find a community of people with the same machine to figure out the problem and/or convince yourself it is systemic, which is very easy to do with a mac.

anyway, apple hardware always has scored extremely highly on customer satisfaction surveys and independent reliability measures. so, they are far from perfect, but unless you are unlucky, it will likely be more reliable than any pc you have owned.

I need a large screen but I don't need one that large!

to that i respond, where the tittays at?

27" is kind of nuts, but you can never go home again once to step up.

don't want to confuse you, but given you're looking at the very top of the line imac, why don't you get a mac pro and a dell monitor?

does apple in the u.s offer an academic discount? in the uk it's very easy to find someone to make the purchase for you (can just be an undergrad, doesn't need to be a student), and it's quite a substantial discount (15%?).

they do, and often you can just make up whatever university you wish you actually went to on the online apple store and they do not ask for proof. whereas when you go to the b&m apple store, they ask for ID.

but dan went to harvard, in case you were wondering

oh right, mac pros cost a billion dollars at the moment. ignore me.

i knew dan went to a university in boston, not tufts, but i wasn't sure which.

in the u.k. you can get a regular student discount quite easily, it's like 8% (?), but if you can find someone with an academic IP and an academic shipping addresss you can get 15%. apple think i own 6 ibooks/macbooks iirc.

Gotta say, I've had an extraordinary run of good luck with Dell desktop computers; I've owned since 1994 and have never, ever had issues with them aside from one video card glitch last year that was fixed by pulling a jumper (oh, and a USB glitch this past Decemember that was fixed by pulling a jumper). The one time I had a hard drive die, it was one that I'd carried forward from... 2001 I think? that I'd turned into an external storage drive; never had a problem with my boot drive or the operation of my machine in general.

I'm looking at the Mac not as much for "stability" as I am for isolation of function and dedicated processing power; the only real reason I'm going Mac is so that, if I so desire later, I can make a partition that I could use for Mac development and this as a good excuse to ease into that world (kind of undercutting my "isolation of function" idea but I would likely try to rebuild the machine to keep the music env and the software play env separate).

My wife works at a university in Boston. Well, Cambridge; no, not Tufts. I might have it sent to her so I can get the discount (likely going to do the same with Sibelius although I think I actually qualify for that discount since I get paid to sing at a church).

okay lol, students save a whopping $100 ZOMG

Yeah, i'm not sure how much of the screen issue is echo chamber, adimttedly. But as you probably found out it's all over the Mac news sites right now. So the next point is going to sound contradictory...

You probably should go with the 27' over the 21'. I thought 24' was too big when I ordered it - now there's no way I can ever step down again, the real estate is just so DELICIOUS. Being an iMac, you're stuck with this monitor for good when you buy it, so get the better one if you can afford it. Also, the 27' has a video input, which is new to iMacs (took them long enough!) so that might be worth it, assuming something in the future besides an MacBook can actually use the DisplayPort in.

And I agree with the sentiment to just go with the Apple site and ignore the store except for tech support. Had no problems with my refurb ordered direct.