Canadian Politics Thread

A Layton spokesperson argued that the average of all the polls so far is 17.5 per cent for the NDP. (my emphasis)

LOL seriously, NDP?? Here's a crazy thought: if you can't pass fourth grade math, then you can't figure out how to balance the budget by 2014.

I mean, it depends which polls you look at but that's not completely insane, although it's as optimistic as every political party's self-evaluation is. Looking at Election Almanac, there have been several polls that showed the NDP above that number, as well as below. (A few in the 20-21 range.) Admittedly, I didn't bother doing an average myself.

(And yeah, something like the release of an Auditor-General's report is what I was referring to upthread:

So far there haven't been any official findings that money was pissed away on corrupt partisanship or grossly and inappropriately misspent.)

Btw, I'm no military expert but the NDP's defence plan is actually sounding pretty good to me: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/ottawa-notebook/layton-pans-tory-defence-plan-unveils-made-in-canada-alternative/article1976679/?from=sec368

This seems like a long time coming btw: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/lysiane-gagnon/in-quebec-the-ndp-is-no-2/article1977700/

I believe this is the complete leaked report fwiw: http://www.torontosun.com/news/decision2011/2011/04/11/17953806.html

not nearly as stinging as i was hoping.

Not devastating but does seem to show: a lack of transparency verging on manipulation of Parliament, unusually high expenses, and inadequate documentation.

man. i decided to read the Post's site this morning. what a joke. no mention of the G8 scandal anywhere near the top. the first thing i click was about how the money for the action plan was spread around, where the article goes on to say that the Cons had "so far avoided any spending scandals"! then i scroll to the bottom to read 1,000 posts bitching about the liberal commie media bias. fuck these morons.

Not sure what to make of yesterday's story. It was leading CFTR all day, but (what you'd expect, of course) a PC guy shrugged it off. It might be an opening, though--again, short time frame, stories take on a life of their own.

i have a feeling this report and the "misquote" are going to be the debate's theme song tonight.

I mean, it depends which polls you look at but that's not completely insane, although it's as optimistic as every political party's self-evaluation is.

But when the polls show a clear trend downward, then taking an average and claiming it to be representative of something is almost meaningless.

Btw, I'm no military expert but the NDP's defence plan is actually sounding pretty good to me:

IMO, it's completely retarded, like most NDP "plans".

It's a defence plan that is more of a job-creation plan.

Judging from that article, Layton's concept of defense-related jobs means more unionized manual labour building ships, not as if that should surprise anyone. If they just want to create jobs then there are any number of other ways to go about it, and none of those ways would cost $21B.

Canada is a world leader in aerospace -- our aerospace industry is the 4th largest in the world. It's a high-yield sector that brings billions of $ in sales into the country, keeps us at the forefront of military and civilian technological developments, and keeps tens of thousands of high paying jobs in the country (and the intellectual capital that goes with it). Buying jets can at least be partly justified along those lines. Anyone proposing a $21B defense budget had better be putting big chunks of money into the kind of R&D and engineering sectors that will not only create jobs right now, but invest in the long term future of the country. Oh, and the Grits also want to support more peacekeeping efforts, so this is nothing new.

Mr. Layton said it is time to go back to “square one” on the F-35s and none of the aircraft should be purchased without first assessing the defence priorities of Canadians.

This is a meaningless statement. Defense isn't like a health care system, it's not something that everybody uses or needs to have access to every day. Layton is so out of touch it's not even funny.

you sure hate the ndp huh

The NDP are all right, but when they're wrong they're spectacularly wrong and their leader is a gigantic douche.

he has a p cool moustache tho

this may sound cliched - but at least he's sticking up for our vets. i'm glad he's coming out swinging on that one. when our current gov't's policy is to treat our returning troops like yesterday's garbage until it's time to trot them out for a photo-op... if we're going to start calling people "gigantic douches" - we should think about who our PM is and what's he's done to limit the help our troops have access to.

if anything really pisses me off about Harper and his goons (aside from completely lying about transparency and ethics) - it's the totally disrespectful way they've treated our troops. it really, honestly, bothers me alot.

Defense isn't like a health care system, it's not something that everybody uses or needs to have access to every day.

It is still possible to (re)assess what our defence priorities should be, B4rry, e.g. questioning whether we should even get involved in active combats in internal matters such as the current Libyan situation. National Post writers with no NDP sympathies whatsoever have said as much (that we can question our defence priorities):
http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2011/04/05/kelly-mcparland-liberals-hide-their-agenda-on-canadas-military/
http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2011/04/01/peter-worthington-canada-doesnt-need-the-worlds-best-attack-aircraft/

Anywho, I read the Conservative, Liberal, and NDP platforms last night. I like the Liberal platform the best, particularly the ideas of promoting strategic knowledge-intensive sectors, the emphasis on investing in scholarly non-commercial research, the Learning Passport, and the relatively detailed ideas about arts funding. I do think their approach to international trade and co-operation is good. I don't really know how much to trust Ignatieff, honestly. (The LPC mostly seemed to go along with the CPC in the last Parliament and Chretien's Liberal governments were quite neoliberal so this new progressive agenda seems a bit surprising.) Also, my NDP incumbent seems much stronger than the Liberal candidate + the Conservative came in #2 last time so I may vote NDP again. Seems like I won't volunteer with anyone's campaign though.

I wasn't expecting to like the Conservative platform anyway but it's kind of amazing in terms of how little information they provide as to how they will balance the budget, especially given how much detail they want to give in other areas. They plan to slash taxes, increase military and law enforcement spending, and say they'll maintain health and education transfers to the provinces... Something's going to get gutted...

I just signed up to be a DRO. I'm not completely sure what to expect.

(And I'm sorry to be a pedant, clemenza, but there hasn't been a federal PC party for a decade.:P They're Conservatives or Tories or the CPC. Joe Clark wouldn't recognize this bunch.)

"...in active combat when it comes to internal matters..."

(I realize that the NDP doesn't actually seem to be questioning that particular issue, btw.)

what is DRO?

Deputy returning officer. Guy who manages a polling station.

(And I'm sorry to be a pedant, clemenza, but there hasn't been a federal PC party for a decade.:P They're Conservatives or Tories or the CPC. Joe Clark wouldn't recognize this bunch.)

No problem, you're right--shows how little attention I've paid the past 20 years. I was in grade 9 the year Clark took over the leadership, and I wrote a paper on him (or the convention, can't remember) for history class. He seemed like a very decent guy who, politically, was no match for Trudeau.

Harper is handling himself depressingly well...

...and Layton is currently rocking Iggy back on his heels here. For a lecturer and intellectual, Iggy's being stunningly repetitive and occasionally incoherent. Though I generally lean NDP, this is NOT pleasing me.

OTM

layton sounds like a fucking asshole

Think so? He's a bit morally superior but imho he looks good here. He's trying to hit two targets. I don't think Iggy expected to be attacked by Layton.

Really? I thought he was doing exceptionally well, articulately making strong points.

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Sounding like an asshole is better than sounding like a confused grandpa IIRC.

Worth noting I'm listening to this on the radio so if there's a visual element that's making Iggy look better, it's not coming across for me obviously.

There isn't.

I mean, I can't be too hard on him. Public speaking is really hard for me too.:P And he has to think on his feet.

Ugh. Harper is just a fucking sleazebag. He is so repulsive.

layton looking better now

Sund4r -- Kelly McParland's article is OTM. I think all the parties agree that no matter what the military's responsibilities are going to be, they should be well-equipped. But Layton is playing a cheap brand of politics, he's basically saying "which do you prefer, should we spend $20B on stuff that won't directly affect you personally, or should we spend $20B on job creation (= do you want us to put money in your pocket)?" Not only is that a false binary, it's a totally misleading way to think about defense spending. I know there's a link between defense and job creation (I wrote about it upthread) but I wouldn't sell my defense budget as just another job creation plan.

I'm not saying that the Liberals have it all figured out though ... and I'm not saying that I agree with the F-35 purchases either.

BE hard on him. He's a goddamn LECTURER.

And yeah, Harper is lying his fegging ass off here and saying it in a soothing condescending tone which is, sadly, going to work a whole lot better than the arm flailing of his supposed main competition here.

WTF is Ignatieff on now? "Let some flowers bloom"??

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BE hard on him. He's a goddamn LECTURER.

So am I.:P

ya. sadly otm

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The way Duceppe looks at Harper is actually quite terrifying.

Harper is handling himself depressingly well...

He always does ... he let's the other leaders get riled up over stuff, while he chills out and tries to sound "leader-like".

WTF is Ignatieff on now? "Let some flowers bloom"??

I LOLed

...though admittedly Ig seems to have found his feet a bit better since the beginning of this thing!
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The big diff Sund4r is you're not running for PM. :)

sweet. now what we've been arguing about is the official subject.

haha is "let xxx flourish" and "shut down everything you can't control" Iggy's answer to EVERYTHING??

Yeah I take back my comment about his feet. Maybe they're walking down the street looking for a wine bar or something. >:(

i do hate the way harper is talking

"i'm stephen harper and this is my indoor voice."

Just thought I'd say stunningly repetitive again.

xpost. LOL @ indoor voice. It is incredibly obnoxious. If he's trying to be presidential he's way off the mark.

everyone else sounds hysterical by comparison tho

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lol at "stiffed"!