Canadian Politics Thread

Oh, this is the first time I've been impressed by Ignatieff.

(tonight)

yes Iggy, the gun registry is definitely what you want to bring up.

"soft on crime in his own office"

ya - i didn't think he was that good there.

xpost - that was good!

Duceppe's doing great right now imo.

oh david chenpaws

Layton totally just said "bling".

And "hashtag fail" - oh man, that was bad.

i know.

ugh Layton don't ever do that

Harper's getting rocked on this question ... he's not really trying to refute what the others are saying though, so I guess he feels he already has strong support on this issue?

If someone says "roffle" I am SO turning this thing off.

more or less. the people that would agree with him already do.
xpost ha ha!

I think so, B4rry.
xpost

HA HAHAHA

I can't tell if Layton's "crooks in the senate" comment just got a laugh from the audience or a gasp.

i was laughing too hard to tell

sounded like a laugh to me, but it was pretty muffled

Whatever it was, it was the first time I've heard any substantial response from the audience! So well done!

I think Ignatieff has given up on the Prairie/Northern/rural vote and is aiming for the cities and Central Canada by stressing the gun registry...?

maybe!

Layton is being remarkably and wisely quiet throughout this discussion though!

holy shit - it's been 90 minutes already!

i think i'm drunk

holy shit - it's been 90 minutes already!

I know!

"alternative service delivery"

"We need a low-tax system where we can continue to fund health care..."

Iggy losing his temper is not a good look for him

Ha, excellent final question!

Iggy has been largely appalling here, to my great dismay.

"mr harper is offing you"

I'm actually pretty offended by Duceppe's constant references to "Quebec and Canada".

You know what that debate was missing? A female perspective. Shame there isn't a female party leader who could have been, y'know, included.

whatever. she can get a seat in the house first.

OTM

Well, that was fun. Iggy looked overwhelmed and not completely up to the challenge, but the others were more or less true to form.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canadavotes2011/realitycheck/2011/04/fact-checking-the-leaders-debate.html

It's kind of depressing the way this supposedly ended up as a Harper victory (because he "survived") while at the same time moving the media on from the G8 cash scandal. I mean, Harper essentially stood there saying "it's simply not true" for two hours in the calmest voice money can buy, and somehow ends up "winning"?

His main competitor failed to either articulately nail him on the truth and importance of those charges - to create a "You had an option, sir" moment - or to articulately sell his own (impressive) platform. Spending more time explaining what the Learning Passport is and why it would be good for Canadians would have helped more than going on about KAIROS's funding or about the gun registry.

I was going to say that political debates work very differently from academic discussions and so it may have been hard for Ignatieff to adjust. But, actually, if Ignatieff had chosen to stick to a scholarly approach and had actually presented and explained well-researched, clearly cited evidence of Harper's errors, that would have worked much better than what he did.

I mean, Harper tried to do back himself up that way by e.g. citing Jack Mintz on corporate tax cuts. Ignatieff (or Layton) could have easily jumped in with a contrary citation from Jim Stanford or another left-leaning economist. At the very least, it would have made Harper's position seem less authoritative.

"tried to back himself up"

i don't think they even would have needed a "left leaning" economist. just an economist would do.

latest EKOS poll (done yesterday) has Cons and Libs within 5% points!

When your opponents all gang up on you and you manage to hang in there without letting anyone hit a knockout blow, then I think it's fair to call that a "win". I'm assuming that Harper had some backup arguments to make in case he felt they were hitting him hard, but besides Iggy's "that's not bickering, that's how democracy works" zing, Harper was never in serious trouble.

Iggy's biggest problem wasn't offense, it was defense. He went in there with his prepared points but as soon as anything went off script (like when others attacked him) he couldn't improvise and struck out on a couple of softballs, like Layton's criticism of his attendance record and the corporate tax cuts thing with Harper.

It's really too bad the corporate tax discussion went nowhere.

anyone watching the fr?

I might try to catch it later online. Let me know how it is.