2008 Primaries Thread 3: The Rejecting and Denouncening

There was an exit poll in which 14% of voters said race was an issue in their voting preference. So there's a stack of voters right there who aren't going to vote for Obama in the GE.

yep.

yah those people will come around

except for the racists, who will give McCain his margin of victory.

Zelda, that's an open-ended question; people could positively want a black man or a woman as Prez without race being a 'negative'. In this poll it was presented neutrally, not as prejudice. Estimates also that 3 points of the 8.6pc were Rush-holes.

Morbius, there are more non-bigots than bigots in America. Enough of the thoughtworms, plese.

HUGE Woman's Hour discussion this morning where Dianne Abbott and others said it was bullshit for HRC to campaign as a feminist when she's so reliant on her husband for her place in the world.

Cooler heads need to prevail - they may well - and I think Obama needs to go for the 21st century strategy in the sense that excoriating partisanship and the FUD ploys favoured by the GOP and recycled by the HRC campaign are divisive and inappropriate for 21st century life with its instant communications and rapid-cycling media; also Cold War attitudes/colour prejudice whatever the subject or object is sooooo C20, y'all get with the program. For the purposes of ordinary Americans, the century/millennium actually began 12 September 2001

Also please borrow hippity hoppity concepts like dignity, respect and representation which are actually transcendent, meaningful and appealing as part of a more broad and humane process. THEN let Fox and Friends go mental because it's RAP and alienate every single person 45 and under regardless of class or race (how much of their sponsors are pills and Depend?). Also up to our pals in the entertainment industry to 'raise concerns' about why we accept the 'performing' black guy/girl but resist the thinking one and ask us to please justify it. We can't.

The only area where Obama himself can 'raise concerns' is all to do with McCain's medical records, because that post-op cheek of his is looking A BIT TOO CHIPMUNK and head cancer may lead him to confuse The Button with The Clapper.

That there are more non-bigots than bigots in America doesn't mean the bigots can't decide an election.

Doesn't mean they can. AND ANOTHER THING bigots have called the shots for too long, the non-bigot majority knows it has to GOTV. At the beginning of this race the thing I said about Obama was at the very least this country would be getting one massive civics lesson.

I admire yr optimism and hope McCain starts drooling, but I've expected the worst from the electorate since 1980 and they havent surprised me yet.

also, Obama still looks like a corporate tool.

if the bigots decide they want more war, then maybe we're in trouble, but I think only the Klannest would prefer that more of their children die in war to voting for a minority.

huffpost and drudge as sick of this as everyone else

http://i30.tinypic.com/2qk6tlu.jpg
http://i32.tinypic.com/nysgsh.jpg

I've expected the worst from the electorate since 1980 and they havent surprised me yet.

-- Dr Morbius, Wednesday, April 23, 2008 9:35 AM (13 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

so u thought bill clinton was worse than bush 1 etc etc? (i wont even bring up david duke here except maybe parenthetically)

and the bigots may well decide they want more war, as this guy argued here:
http://www.powells.com/cgi-bin/imageDB.cgi?isbn=9780195168402

As the economy goes into freefall, even the bigots will realise they can't afford more war at the moment.

not necessarily every person who has some misgivings abt a black president will vote mccain - most people have things they dislike abt both candidates - some may decide they hate mccain more than even a black guy

Yeah. Being black will probably shave one or two percentage points off Obama, but ultimately recession + iraq will prove fatal to McCain.

My mom the part-time bigot is saying Obama, who she liked enough to want to vote for before her personal bugbear (affiliation w/religious nutter) got brought out by Fox, should talk up being part white, too. Whenever Obama says something she's like 'OMG he's right' in the moment but she keeps making lateral excuses as to why her vote's going to the not so healthy old guy at this stage.

The real bigotry focus this election will be immigration related, not candidate-related. The GOP guy wants an amnesty, which makes people like his supposed base and my mom angry because her grandparents 'followed the rules' and the Dems want to be able to license drivers from wherever as a safety issue because of runaway insurance costs, which looks like giving undocumented workers something rewardish, cue shitstorm.

TANGENT ALERT: The Dem approach alienates fewer current citizens and driving, with green concerns, needs to be 'deprivileged' while making sure all road users are licensed. I say as a non-driver, make passport the go-to ID for access to programs so the other 80 per cent of Americans get one and use it. Also detangles the whole here is my DRIVING license may I have some ALCOHOL thing, cue MADD endorsement, because that shit should only be relevant to driving.

I've expected the worst from the electorate since 1980 and they havent surprised me yet.

-- Dr Morbius, Wednesday, April 23, 2008 9:35 AM (13 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

so u thought bill clinton was worse than bush 1 etc etc? (i wont even bring up david duke here except maybe parenthetically)

-- jhøshea

This has been amply discussed, but if you want more, take it to this thread.

xpost i doubt you would ever convince an american to walk around with his or her passport instead of a drivers license though

Passport is probably not going to be a booklet forever.

alfrd dont be lameo thread cop - and besides that thread doesnt even address what me n morbs were talking abt

If you want the short answer: Bush I was a gentlemanly milquetoast; Clinton was the true heir to Reagan.

hahahahaha yeah right^^^

dude bush 1 is an evil genius get w/it

I think suzy is proposing a federal ID Card scheme which has the flying possibilities of a sick penguin.

so u thought bill clinton was worse than bush 1

Yes. Bill's "oh I hate to do this but, hey, politics" shit did more lasting evil than Poppy Twit.

Not so dissimilar to 'oh well, that's campaigns LOL' -HRC.

As time goes by, I am more convinced that Streep was indeed doing Rodham in Demme's Manchurian Candidate

Streep is totally fucking nuts but that's funny.

Yes. Bill's "oh I hate to do this but, hey, politics" shit did more lasting evil than Poppy Twit.

-- Dr Morbius, Wednesday, April 23, 2008 10:34 AM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

ovb i was talking abt at the time morbs - u vote bush? perot?

Clinton's pandering – zipping back to Arkansas to execute a poor black imbecile, "I did not inhale" – was well-reported then. I voted for him anyway because I was young, voting for the first time, and tired of Reagan-Bush. Regrets set in almost immediately, starting with seeing pictures of the reformed Fleetwood Mac at the inaugural.

alfred this is all abt me untangling morbs web of lies

but really u dont like teh mac? for shame!

I love them when they don't look like they were dipped in mustard for preservation.

Estimates also that 3 points of the 8.6pc were Rush-holes.

Do you have a link? If that's right, that's disgusting.

It's been a while since we've last seen a closely contested presidential nomination for a major party in this country, so I think perhaps its unnerving people to see the nominee still undecided this late into the primary season. However, if we go back to the last time there was a close nomination contest, ie. the Democratic primaries in 1976, we see that this year has not been that unusual in many respects. Wikipedia has an interesting summary of that primary contest:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election%2C_1976#Democratic_Party_Nomination

We read there that Carter also had difficulty "sealing the deal":

As Carter closed in on the nomination, an "ABC" (Anybody But Carter) movement started among Northern and Western Democrats who feared that Carter might be too conservative for the party. The leaders of this movement were Idaho Senator Frank Church and California Governor Jerry Brown. They entered several Western primaries and defeated Carter, but their candidacies started too late to prevent Carter from winning the nomination. They eventually supported Carter in the general election.

So even though there was a strong and vocal anti-Carter faction within the Democratic party, and despite the fact that they beat Carter in some late contests, Carter still sealed the nomination, and eventually rallied the support of the party, and went on to win the presidency in November.

It's not surprising that there will be a sizeable faction that will continue to support someone other than Obama even this late in the contest - there are many valid reasons for Democrats to question whether he would in fact be the best candidate. However, I remain optimistic that once he seals the nomination, Democrats will fall in line behind him.

Don't forget Reagan and Ford in '76 too.

the resemblances to Carter might not end there cf. TOMBOT :/

yah yikes :/

who feared that Carter might be too conservative for the party.

It's telling that I can't imagine this ever being a major concern for the Democrats these days.

Here's a map of Democratic primary and caucus results and the schedule for 1976:

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Agora/8088/Dem1976.html

Here we see that even as late as June, Carter lost California's primary to Jerry Brown.

<3 governor moonbeam

now that wouldve been a WHITEhouse eh *nudge*

Obama started out as one of many ABH candidates, so...

Can I pull a Suzy here and note that I went to college with Frank Church's grandson?

jhøshea, I have not voted for a Dem or Rep prez candidate since Mondale (not Perot either, gimme a break). No idea whose fuck-you lever I pulled in '92. Who was fourth in the popular vote?

;-P

Who he?

but morbs who did you think was worst in 92 bush clinton or perot - be honest

xxp Andre V. Marrou Libertarian Alaska 290,087 0.3%

I voted for my dad in '92. In retrospect, I'm glad he wasn't President because he would have tried to flatten the Middle East with nuclear weapons.

Oh, since we hadn't seen what a homicidal fuck war criminal Clinton would turn out to be, I probably thought B Blythe was least vomitorious at the time. I learn.

I might've voted for Marrou, dunno, I think I voted for a Socialist one year.

I've expected the worst from the electorate since 1980 and they havent surprised me yet.

-- Dr Morbius, Wednesday, April 23, 2008 9:35 AM (13 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

proving this statement UNtrue^^^ CASE CLOSED! MORBS GULITY *slam slam*

Don't forget '96 too. Would Dole have been a lesser evil than Clinton as well?