US POLITICS SPRING 2011: Let's just call off this country.

steers, queers, a nation in arrears

(Shaking head sadly) I miss those halcyon days of Dwight Eisenhower and Ozzie and Harriet so much.

as someone who's pretty uneasy with even sex offender registries, the fact that these are popping up more and more - and the total lack of opposition to them - is concerning

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/21/us/21registry.html?_r=1&hpw

Lawmakers around the country are pushing for online registries, like those used for sex offenders, to track the whereabouts of people convicted of a wide variety of crimes, from arson and drunken driving to methamphetamine manufacturing and animal abuse.

LOL yeah lets put all the meth makers/dealers in one big registry, and we can call it the list of where to go get meth...

hahaha

can we get a chill dude who sells fat grams for cheap registry? thanks in advance

these days they call those registered dispensaries, unfortunately you need to be "sick" to use them...

What would be the logic behind an arson registry anyway? Do arsonists usually burn down neighborhoods or something? I thought it was mostly insurance fraud and anti-social teens who burn down small businesses and trash-dumpsters respectively. Not seeing the point...

The arson registry would be so you knew who the most badass criminals are.

Can this extend to things that aren't actually crimes, like being adulterous or a furry? Perhaps being a member of a left-wing or otherwise 'radical' organization?

there's a firehouse here with a plaque on the outside wall warning "only you can prevent arson".

I just got my first official Obama 2012 fundraising call last night, a totally scripted deal that just bugged me to hell. It positioned Obama as this total grassroots candidate who needed all the help he could get to take on the opposition, like 2008 Obama or something. I kept trying to explain to the caller that a) Obama doesn't need my money (they asked for $200 off the bat!) b) I certainly wasn't donating this early in the game and c) he's made a lot of decisions I disagree with and that I wanted to wait to see if he refines his positions before I throw cash his way. The guy kept responding like a Choose Your Own Adventure novel; every time I said something, he jumped to a different narrative in the script. Like:

Him: "We need a leader who can rise above petty partisan politics.

Me: "No, we don't. We need a leader strong enough to stay partisan and fight back."

Him: "I understand. There is too much petty fighting in Washington DC. We need an alternative from outside the beltway."

Me: "No, we don't! We need the guy already in the beltway to grow a pair!"

Him: "Well, we are still overcoming the destructive politics and policies of the previous administration."

Me:"No argument there, but so what? It's been four years, it's time to focus on the present. It's time to focus on how the Republican minority, despite having played a direct part in those destructive policies, is still somehow calling the shots and dictating the terms of debate."

Him: "That's why we need a grassroots alternative."

And so on. I complained about extending the Bush tax cuts, Libya, domestic oil drilling and all sorts of shit, and the guy robotically responded like his man in the White House was not only not responsible, but the man we should support to right the ship.

wow the phone bankers were working off a script?? the straw that broke donkey's back!

& how dare they spin their candidate!

Paid telephone solicitor? Check.
Robotic script well-rehearsed? Check.
The "ask" calculated to maximize contribution? Check.
Ghost of Nixon hovering weirdly over whole conversation? Double check.

Welcome to modern prez reelection campaign, Obama stylee.

you guys are REALLY blowing the cover off this whole "election" thing! somebody call the nation!

altho lol @ the idea of "paid phone solicitor"

the tried and true incredulity gambit, I see

J0rd, introduce yrself to Matt Armstrong as the truly jaded one

i'm too stunned by obama's sickening scripted fundraising calls to do much of anything right now

i'm too stunned by obama's sickening scripted fundraising calls to do much of anything right now

the rapture is fucking w/ the ilx server

I wasn't surprised it was scripted. I was surprised it was absolutely impossible for me to nudge the guy off-script. Maybe because I've never actually engaged with a scripted call before? Anyway, it was weird. Like having a conversation with someone who speaks in monotone and doesn't ever directly acknowledge what you've said.

What did shock and disappoint me was the audacious decision to couch the Obama 2012 debate as a "grassroots" "outside the beltway" effort. Like, really? That's the line they're taking? I did tell the guy that such a cynical position was bound to lose Obama "grassroots" support, but again, dude would not be swayed from script.

i mean

were you hoping you'd 'wake up sheeple' him and he'd throw down his phone or

lol J0rdan c'mon man. if the script is calling The President of the United States an "outside the beltway alternative" that deserves some mockery imo

right, maybe josh was digging around for some actually persuasive reasons to part w/ income instead of just having catchphrases shoved down his throat

i mean

were you hoping you'd 'wake up sheeple' him and he'd throw down his phone or

maybe he was hoping that if a guy's trying to solicit donations from a guy on "this is shit you care about" grounds, he wouldn't be transparently cynical abt it?

a) Obama doesn't need my money

p sure every presidential candidate needs money. not sure what u mean here

well he doesn't need it, he is in pretty good shape financially right now I think

his taxes are pretty low too

i'm just making the point that trying to argue with a nervous volunteer working from a script maybe isn't the most effective way to register frustration with the failures of a sitting president

it's like all you can do! the president and his party aren't listening, they have people who read any mail you send 'em or calls you make...sounding off to a nervous volunteer is maybe more effective than much else I can think of, the actual candidates don't give a warm shit what anybody thinks iirc

trying to argue with a nervous volunteer

I've often done volunteer political phone banks. The chances this was a volunteer, rather than a paid worker, are almost nil. First, you are encouraged to identify yourself as a volunteer, because it makes people nicer to you and more receptive to what you say. Second, volunteers are never that slavish to a script, and if they try to be, they screw it up and fumble around.

lol this argument is in a nutshell what i find mind-numbingly pointless about the WHO CARES ABOUT STRATEGY perspective. now we're just ranting at clueless phone bank employees huh

at least hes employing someone lol

heartfelt lol that yr conclusion is otm but I mean it's kinda heartless for ppl to be "lol, you did literally the only thing you can do to possibly maybe reach somebody with a connection to the machine" - chiding people for being powerless is kind of a bummer imo

I was once a volunteer phone bank person for obama. used a script!!!!!!!1111

lol J0rdan c'mon man. if the script is calling The President of the United States an "outside the beltway alternative" that deserves some mockery imo

― w of in the attic (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Saturday, May 21, 2011 9:19 PM (55 minutes ago) Bookmark

yeah josh in chi wasn't mocking, he was feigning shock that someone called him & was reading off the script & sticking to the script aka doing what he was trained to do

also josh should realize that anyone calling him this early in the cycle is probably a very well trained, experienced operative of the dem party who's not gonna get swayed by someone telling him that obama needs to "grow a pair"

What did shock and disappoint me was the audacious decision to couch the Obama 2012 debate as a "grassroots" "outside the beltway" effort. Like, really? That's the line they're taking? I did tell the guy that such a cynical position was bound to lose Obama "grassroots" support, but again, dude would not be swayed from script.

― Josh in Chicago, Saturday, May 21, 2011 9:03 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark

i don't think it's cynical but jeez what is the campaign gonna call you up and go "hey listen obama is pretty entrenched in washington at this point and he has a pretty good war chest from the 08 election & he'll get a lot of corporate money & hey you know what between me & you there's a pretty good shot that he's gonna win anyway. now w/ that said, how about a small donation?!"

eh

I think josh & anybody is making good use of their time if they tell somebody who's on the same rough side of things & is calling for donations: "here is the reason you're not getting a donation from me" - if you think a simple "no, thanks" is fine - ok - but you're gonna get read the same script anyway - might as well get your three minutes' worth

xp if they called with that last one that'd basically be the only way I'd re-up for the campaign instead of sending that money to nnaf instead

I think josh & anybody is making good use of their time if they tell somebody who's on the same rough side of things & is calling for donations: "here is the reason you're not getting a donation from me" - if you think a simple "no, thanks" is fine - ok - but you're gonna get read the same script anyway - might as well get your three minutes' worth

no i agree w/ this! but i wouldn't hang up the phone & go "weird, that guy just wouldn't deviate from the script!"

fwiw if he asked why i wasnt donating id be straight up about it -- no money, shit job, dont even have health insurance -- so im not completely opposed to that -- this felt more like, lets get involved in a political debate w/ a phone bank man which i can understand making ppl o_O

yah j0rdan otm

also phone bank people are supposed to find a good exit from the call cause political debates aren't super time efficient.

iatee also otm

'discuss politics with Josh from chicago for 45 mins -> he doesn't give any money' vs 'make 45 calls'

I just talk super-slow and make 'em think I'm considering a donation and then I pretend I thought they were the pizza delivery guy

hai guys so I'm drunk and you people are debating the sincerity of a robocall?

to couch the Obama 2012 debate as a "grassroots" "outside the beltway" effort. Like, really? That's the line they're taking?

why not? worked for Reagan and Clinton.

heartfelt lol that yr conclusion is otm but I mean it's kinda heartless for ppl to be "lol, you did literally the only thing you can do to possibly maybe reach somebody with a connection to the machine" - chiding people for being powerless is kind of a bummer imo

aero otm

^Sort of this. I generally don't get to engage that much about politics, aside from here. And I rarely answer the phone if I don't know who's calling. So the fact that the guy actually caught me on the line, was a living human being, and was asking for money for something I care about encouraged me to engage rather than simply say "no, thanks." And again, there was the novelty of the script, which I've literally never sat through before. I didn't think I was being naive; it never occurred to me that the guy was not a volunteer was being paid to stick to a script. Any similar conversations I've had with folks asking for money have been like actual conversations, and I wanted to hear what this guy (who I assumed was an honest to goodness Obama supporter) had to say to my legitimate issues. It was like he was following the scripts for "Obama supporter" or "not an Obama supporter," when I was trying to convey to him that "Obama supporter with serious reservations" is a legit position that I thought warranted an actual human response , or at least a third script.