"Starship Troopers" - Verhoeven is a mad genius!

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http://www.quiltware.com/images/dachsund.jgp.jpg

― dabnis coleman's ghost (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 1 December 2005 20:06 (eighteen years ago) link

http://www.jeaniestephenson.com/dachsund.jpg

― dabnis coleman's ghost (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 1 December 2005 20:06 (eighteen years ago) link

How could you satirize fascism with an action movie? Fascism is action, Leni Riefenstahl already provided the blueprint on how to shoot a blockbuster spectacle of beautiful Aryan heroes.

The only way I think you could take fascism to task, cinematically, is to ground it in some kind of pleasant normality and then attack it. Pleasantville about the Nazis instead of Leave it to Beaver.

― Erick Dampier is better than Shaq (miloaukerman), Thursday, 1 December 2005 20:06 (eighteen years ago) link

http://glasswonders.com/Images/Dog/dachsund.jpg

― dabnis coleman's ghost (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 1 December 2005 20:06 (eighteen years ago) link

Gattaca was great! The scene where Uma Thurman almost shoots her lungs out of her face after running on the treadmill represents a pointed critique of the feudal system.

― Dan (Yay Misrepresentation) Perry (Dan Perry), Thursday, 1 December 2005 20:07 (eighteen years ago) link

http://photos1.blogger.com/img/147/1606/400/fighting%20dachsund.jpg

― dabnis coleman's ghost (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 1 December 2005 20:07 (eighteen years ago) link

WE ARE UPSET THAT SOME PEOPLE ON THIS THREAD ARE ARGUING THAT IT IS A BRILLIANT, HIGHBROW CRITIQUE OF EVERYTHING IN THE WORLD.
Who?

― Erick Dampier is better than Shaq (miloaukerman), Thursday, 1 December 2005 20:07 (eighteen years ago) link

http://www.arcatapet.com/fullsize/9846.jpg

― dabnis coleman's ghost (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 1 December 2005 20:07 (eighteen years ago) link

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― 'you' vs. 'radio gnome invisible 3' FITE (ex machina), Thursday, 1 December 2005 20:08 (eighteen years ago) link

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― dabnis coleman's ghost (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 1 December 2005 20:08 (eighteen years ago) link

http://members.aol.com/grfweb/private/screech.jpg

― 'you' vs. 'radio gnome invisible 3' FITE (ex machina), Thursday, 1 December 2005 20:08 (eighteen years ago) link

I AM MAKING YOUR CARD, STRONGO

― Dan (It Has Puppies On It) Perry (Dan Perry), Thursday, 1 December 2005 20:08 (eighteen years ago) link

http://www.thepetproject.com/images/pic_SD_dachsund.jpg

― dabnis coleman's ghost (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 1 December 2005 20:09 (eighteen years ago) link

What makes "Starship Troopers" brilliant (and what may have been brought up upthread) is that it makes you *side* with the fascists just by dint of its structure, and brings you pretty far along before you say, 'hey, wait a minute!' Anyone interested should listen to Verhoeven's commentary track, wherein he says, in his Dutch-accented English: "A lot of people said the film was fascist, which is very, very silly. That is why we obviously had them wearing black Nazi uniforms. THEY ARE BAD. THE BLACK UNIFORMS MEAN THEY ARE BAD! NAZIS ARE BAD!!!" (I paraphrase, except for the shouting)

He goes on to talk about how much of the war stuff and propaganda was inspired by his childhood on the receiving end of the Germans during WWII.

Anyway, this is what makes it satire, not of fascists, but of the fascist nature of action films and, in particular, the tendency of patriotism and nationalism to lead followers unwittingly straight to fascism (which is why the film resonates so strongly in today's world, especially from an American perspective).

Also, for Verhoeven haters, "Showgirls" and "The Hollow Man" are his only truly terrible films, and the latter was a Hollywood sop to make up for the former.

― Josh in Chicago (Josh in Chicago), Thursday, 1 December 2005 20:09 (eighteen years ago) link

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― dabnis coleman's ghost (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 1 December 2005 20:09 (eighteen years ago) link

http://www.waterhouseanimalhospital.com/bogey_dachsund_ashley_aimee.jpg.JPG

― dabnis coleman's ghost (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 1 December 2005 20:09 (eighteen years ago) link

http://img131.exs.cx/img131/9121/tutorial3.png

― 'you' vs. 'radio gnome invisible 3' FITE (ex machina), Thursday, 1 December 2005 20:10 (eighteen years ago) link

I think that piece of Star Trek art could be the worst thing ever created.

All the daschunds, meanwhile, are archangels.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 1 December 2005 20:10 (eighteen years ago) link

http://www.math.tamu.edu/~patrice.poage/Images/sport4.jpg

― dabnis coleman's ghost (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 1 December 2005 20:10 (eighteen years ago) link

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― dabnis coleman's ghost (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 1 December 2005 20:11 (eighteen years ago) link

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a209/WNBAFan85/DebbiesNewLook.jpg

― 'you' vs. 'radio gnome invisible 3' FITE (ex machina), Thursday, 1 December 2005 20:11 (eighteen years ago) link

How could you satirize fascism with an action movie?

http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/roll.gif

― Nathalie (stevie nixed), Thursday, 1 December 2005 20:11 (eighteen years ago) link

http://www.sachsreport.com/appple%20users%20are%20so%20irrational%20they%20make%20me%20sick%20power%20book%20loser.jpg
http://static.flickr.com/8/12668304_8c8065b996_o.jpg

― 'you' vs. 'radio gnome invisible 3' FITE (ex machina), Thursday, 1 December 2005 20:11 (eighteen years ago) link

I loved "The Hollow Man"! They set Kevin Bacon on fire, thereby creating a derisive allegory highlighting the excesses of the Thuggee cult.

― Dan (And So On) Perry (Dan Perry), Thursday, 1 December 2005 20:12 (eighteen years ago) link

http://norman.walsh.name/2004/09/30/images/toad.jpg

― dabnis coleman's ghost (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 1 December 2005 20:12 (eighteen years ago) link

http://www.svenska.gu.se/isa/personal/lilian_n_j.jpg

― dabnis coleman's ghost (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 1 December 2005 20:13 (eighteen years ago) link

Holy Christ Ally that's exactly my point: nobody on this thread is saying this is fucking Dostoevsky! The most anyone has said on here is that's is a pretty clever aesthetic trick that reflects really interestingly on our actual real-world aesthetics about war! The way you guys are going on you'd think someone up in this thread was trying to nominate Verhoeven for a Nobel Prize.

There's weird cross-talk going on here, too, where everyone agrees. To wit: "Fascism is action" -- this is basically the jumping-off point for half of what this movie is playing with!

― nabisco (nabisco), Thursday, 1 December 2005 20:14 (eighteen years ago) link

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― 'you' vs. 'radio gnome invisible 3' FITE (ex machina), Thursday, 1 December 2005 20:14 (eighteen years ago) link

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― WORLD AIDS DAY (ex machina), Thursday, 1 December 2005 20:15 (eighteen years ago) link

http://www.entineeducation.co.uk/images/Number-1.jpg

― 'you' vs. 'radio gnome invisible 3' FITE (ex machina), Thursday, 1 December 2005 20:16 (eighteen years ago) link

Have any of the naysayers seen a little movie called Spetters? Pretty brilliant subversion of the teen-movie format if you ask me.

― k/l (Ken L), Thursday, 1 December 2005 20:17 (eighteen years ago) link

http://www.math.tamu.edu/~patrice.poage/Images/sport4.jpg

http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/7198/joneskuato300w8gi.jpg

Just to bring it all back around.

― monkeybutler, Thursday, 1 December 2005 20:22 (eighteen years ago) link

http://images-eu.amazon.com/images/P/B00004COT4.02.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

cred Spencer Chow

― 'you' vs. 'radio gnome invisible 3' FITE (ex machina), Thursday, 1 December 2005 20:23 (eighteen years ago) link

No one? I used the word brilliant and meant the word brilliant. "Starship Troopers" is brilliant. There. Said it again. Even more so than "RoboCop." But both were written by Ed Neumeier, whereas "Basic Instinct" and "Showgirls" were written by Joe Eszterhas, which implies Verhoeven is only as strong as his script, and can't be counted on to salvage shit. Which "Basic Instinct" does and "Showgirls" (ahem) does not.

― Josh in Chicago (Josh in Chicago), Thursday, 1 December 2005 20:24 (eighteen years ago) link

You also said on another thread that black people shouldn't be offended by getting called "water buffalo" so I think your opinions are being taken with a salt lick the size of Utah.

― Dan (Just Saying) Perry (Dan Perry), Thursday, 1 December 2005 20:30 (eighteen years ago) link

To this day, Dan, I have no idea what's so bad about the term "water buffalo," having never heard it before or since as a pejorative. The implication of racism on my part is lame, especially since you put words in my mouth. Asshole. Unless you are confusing me with someone else, in which case you are not an asshole and I am sorry.

― Josh in Chicago (Josh in Chicago), Thursday, 1 December 2005 20:37 (eighteen years ago) link

Whatever. That photo looks like someone just propped up a pair of mannequins in a naughty pose, which is just the kind of stupid thing students do all the time. I mean, it's not like anyone was shouting down "water buffalo" or something.

-- Josh in Chicago (Vitesse9...) (webmail), December 1st, 2005. (link)

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i agree, yet the university is treating it with the same matter of seriousness as said incident.

-- maria tessa sciarrino (mari...) (webmail), December 1st, 2005. (link)

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And we all know that "water buffalo" stuff was as serious as it gets! Ah, Ivy League, so much to answer for...

-- Josh in Chicago (Vitesse9...) (webmail), December 1st, 2005. (link)

― Dan (Decide For Yourselves, Folks) Perry (Dan Perry), Thursday, 1 December 2005 20:40 (eighteen years ago) link

Showgirls was so pretty, tho

― kingfish hobo juckie (kingfish 2.0), Thursday, 1 December 2005 20:41 (eighteen years ago) link

i have never heard it before = it is not racist

― oooh, Thursday, 1 December 2005 20:43 (eighteen years ago) link

Where did I say that "black people shouldn't be offended by getting called 'water buffalo'"? God, I hate myself for taking your bait, but I would never say that and the suggestion I would and did reallly irks me.

To say that incident wasn't serious is hardly the same thing. I just recall thinking it was really blown out of proportion. Sorry if you were offended, Dan, either by the post or for being called an asshole. But I didn't remotely say what you said I did, which is defamatory and inconsiderate.

― Josh in Chicago (Josh in Chicago), Thursday, 1 December 2005 20:44 (eighteen years ago) link

Where did I say that "black people shouldn't be offended by getting called 'water buffalo'"? [...] To say that incident wasn't serious is hardly the same thing.

Sorry, but that just doesn't compute.

― Erick Dampier is better than Shaq (miloaukerman), Thursday, 1 December 2005 20:45 (eighteen years ago) link

maybe he meant it isnt serious when black people are offended by racist taunts

― oooh, Thursday, 1 December 2005 20:48 (eighteen years ago) link

for tru satire
please visit last action hero

― styler, Thursday, 1 December 2005 20:49 (eighteen years ago) link

Oh, come on. Sorry if I'm not being clear. Everyone has a right to be offended. If you are offended, who am I to say you're not offended? I just meant that, per my earlier post, I had never heard of anyone being called a water buffalo before, and have never since. I don't know how serious a racial epithet it is, considering it would never occur to me that it even *was* a racial epithet. But I'm all for apologies: show me a place where it has been used as such before said incident or after (and not a reference to said incident), and I will be all (more) apologies.

― Josh in Chicago (Josh in Chicago), Thursday, 1 December 2005 20:49 (eighteen years ago) link

I really, really am sorry for even implying that no one should be offended by that term. It's just what I wrote, I think, is a far enough cry from what Dan said I wrote that, er, *I* was offended.

― Josh in Chicago (Josh in Chicago), Thursday, 1 December 2005 20:51 (eighteen years ago) link

See, this was exactly my point on the other thread! The kid basically defended himself by saying that "water buffalo" isn't technically a racial slur and he just meant it as a generalized insult -- even though everyone on earth (especially the targets), knew he was using it in exactly the same way as a racial slur. That's what made the whole thing so vexing. That smug little bastard managed to invent a racial slur that did all the work of a racial slur but still had some kind of "plausible" deniability around it.

― nabisco (nabisco), Thursday, 1 December 2005 20:54 (eighteen years ago) link

okay what does this have to do with bug sci fi

― gear (gear), Thursday, 1 December 2005 20:57 (eighteen years ago) link

Nothing. Dan invoked it here, invalidating my take on "Starship Troopers" because of something I mentioned on a completely unrelated thread.

― Josh in Chicago (Josh in Chicago), Thursday, 1 December 2005 20:59 (eighteen years ago) link

I dunno. All I know is, I was disappointed that Bug Jack Barron did not feature any actual bugs.

― k/l (Ken L), Thursday, 1 December 2005 20:59 (eighteen years ago) link

The point being made here is that "water buffalo" does not have to be a commonly-used racial epithet with thousands of years of precedent for it to qualify as a racial epithet in the original 1993 situation at Penn and your insistence upon having proof of its offensive lineage is kind of perplexing and casts a gigantic amount of doubt on your ability to infer from subtext in other contexts, like when talking about the meaning of "Starship Troopers".

― Dan (My Point Was Never That You Are A Racist, Just That You Can't Reason Very W, Thursday, 1 December 2005 20:59 (eighteen years ago) link

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