Scottish things and people that I like

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My mum was trying to persuade me to go to Dunfermline last weekend. I dimly remember visiting the Andrew Carnegie museum and Dunfermline Abbey sometime in the 80s.

leigh (leigh), Thursday, 28 July 2005 10:32 (eighteen years ago) link

There's an Andrew Carnegie museum in Dunfermline? But he left when he was... well, younger than I was when I left Hertfordshire! If anywhere it should be in Pittsburgh. But I think they've just got Andy Warhol. Who is not Scots at all.

Masonic Boom (kate), Thursday, 28 July 2005 10:34 (eighteen years ago) link

Andy Warhol. Who is not Scots at all.

Though he did study at Carnegie.

Onimo (GerryNemo), Thursday, 28 July 2005 10:37 (eighteen years ago) link

I sense a conspiracy here!!!!!!!!!!!!!

(Also - the Scots invented Freemasonry. Therefore, they invented conspiracy theories!)

Masonic Boom (kate), Thursday, 28 July 2005 10:38 (eighteen years ago) link

Dunfermline has its charms. I was there in the run-up to an appearance on The Hitman and Her, the whole place was in a turmoil.

PJ Miller (PJ Miller 68), Thursday, 28 July 2005 10:39 (eighteen years ago) link

[countdown to someone mentioning david byrne ... 10 ... 9 ... 8]

grimly fiendish (grimlord), Thursday, 28 July 2005 10:41 (eighteen years ago) link

That's Dumbarton, not Dunfermline.

Andrew Carnegie returned to Dunfermline later in life (around the turn of the century) for several years. (He was about 14 when he left, I think)

aldo_cowpat (aldo_cowpat), Thursday, 28 July 2005 10:44 (eighteen years ago) link

And David Byrne is from Dumbarton of course!

Dadaismus (Dada), Thursday, 28 July 2005 10:46 (eighteen years ago) link

Ta-da!!!!!!!!!

Dadaismus (Dada), Thursday, 28 July 2005 10:47 (eighteen years ago) link

There's a Carnegie Hall in Dunfermline too. When Belle and Sebastian did a Carnegie Hall gig, lots of American fans got very confused.

The Glen in Dunfermline is rather nice, though.

The nicest view in all of Scottish scenery is on the road connecting Harris to Lewis, as you come over the pass between the two islands* and see Lewis and the glen of Loch Seaforth.

* for people unaware of Scottish geography: although Lewis and Harris are separate islands, they are a single landmass. The islands are separated by mountains, not water.

Forest Pines (ForestPines), Thursday, 28 July 2005 10:47 (eighteen years ago) link

How *do* you get to Carnegie Hall?

Masonic Boom (kate), Thursday, 28 July 2005 10:54 (eighteen years ago) link

It's at the end of the High Street*, opposite the public toilets.

*Not strictly true, it's actually on East Port, but these are good enough directions for visitors.

aldo_cowpat (aldo_cowpat), Thursday, 28 July 2005 11:02 (eighteen years ago) link

No, Aldo, the answer is "Practise, lady, practice."

Masonic Boom (kate), Thursday, 28 July 2005 11:03 (eighteen years ago) link

See, that just shows you're not from Dunfermline.

aldo_cowpat (aldo_cowpat), Thursday, 28 July 2005 11:05 (eighteen years ago) link

I like Gordon Strachan.

Tim (Tim), Thursday, 28 July 2005 11:17 (eighteen years ago) link

Troll

Dadaismus (Dada), Thursday, 28 July 2005 11:17 (eighteen years ago) link

you just like his hair.
don't forget moray! elgin is... er.. vital
(ahahhahha)

dahlin (dahlin), Thursday, 28 July 2005 11:20 (eighteen years ago) link

I don't *just* like his hair, I like his witty way with the television cameras. But I do like his hair, yes.

Tim (Tim), Thursday, 28 July 2005 11:23 (eighteen years ago) link

Are Lewis and Harris kind of like Haiti and the Dominican Republic?

Mädchen (Madchen), Thursday, 28 July 2005 11:23 (eighteen years ago) link

I thought he was going to laugh.

PJ Miller (PJ Miller 68), Thursday, 28 July 2005 11:24 (eighteen years ago) link

Ah yes, Dumbarton - capital of whisky and birthplace of David Byrne, thereby enabling Dougie Donnelly to announce them as "Scotland's Talking Heads" every time he played them on Radio Clyde (cf. "Glasgow's Simple Minds," "Glasgow's Set The Tone," etc.).

Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Thursday, 28 July 2005 11:25 (eighteen years ago) link

Are Lewis and Harris kind of like Haiti and the Dominican Republic?

Yes, but instead of voodoo they have the Wee Frees.

Forest Pines (ForestPines), Thursday, 28 July 2005 11:54 (eighteen years ago) link

I thought they were mostly Jungle Jims* up there

(*Tims**)
(**Catholics)

Dadaismus (Dada), Thursday, 28 July 2005 11:56 (eighteen years ago) link

I think Barra and South Uist are largely Catholic, but Lewis and Harris are *heavily* Wee Free-dominated, as is Western Isles Regional Council.

Forest Pines (ForestPines), Thursday, 28 July 2005 12:04 (eighteen years ago) link

i want to go there

dahlin (dahlin), Thursday, 28 July 2005 12:07 (eighteen years ago) link

Western Isles Regional Council
Aye, Catholics wouldn't have an acronym that sounded too much like 'work'.

Onimo (GerryNemo), Thursday, 28 July 2005 12:07 (eighteen years ago) link

Ravenscraig park in Kirkcaldy is better than Pittencrieff Park. Just walk the coastal path between Dysart harbour and Ravenscraig castle. It's great.
Then again I may be slightly biased, given that I went High School a two minute walk from there...

Greig (treefell), Thursday, 28 July 2005 12:15 (eighteen years ago) link

David Byrne
Associates
Altered Images
Josef K
The Wake
Cocteau Twins
JaMC
Gregory's Girl
Local Hero
Ratcatcher

The Scottish people I know
My Scottish name (I'm an Ian Nicholas partially because it was the seventh most popular name in Scotland and my parents loved it)

When an eel hits your eye like a big pizza pie, that's a moray! (Eastern Mantra), Thursday, 28 July 2005 12:25 (eighteen years ago) link

carnegie built libraries all over scotland including where I grew up

RJG (RJG), Thursday, 28 July 2005 12:50 (eighteen years ago) link

OK, this was going to happen eventually.

Fitba:

If there's dominating factor in the Scottish persona, it's probably the love of football. (Apart from those who don't, but they're poofs and we don't talk about them) But let's get one thing out of the way - SCOTTISH FOOTBALL IS PISH.

The heyday of Scottish football was probably right at the very beginning. A Scottish club (Renton, who became Alexandria, who became Dumbarton) won the first ever world competition. Lord Roseberry's XI, in their pink and orange stripes, invented international football. Scotland used to regularly spank England, often by 5 goals.

Let's just look at the Lord Roseberry kit again.

ihttp://www.toffs.com/xtraThumb/3065.gif

You wouldn't see them wearing something like that these days.

Somewhere down the line, however, it all went wrong. In the 50s, Hibs were the first British club to play in a European competition, having introduced European football to Britain in the first place, and held the World Cup winning Hungary side to a goalless draw in their national stadium. They were invited to tour South America, and the 'Famous Five' became the inspiration for the great Brazil side of the 70s. This continued into the 60s, as they beat Manchester United, Barcelona and Real Madrid, and put 5 past Napoli. Celtic were no slouches in this period either, becoming the first British side to win the European Cup, and Rangers followed suit with the Cup Winner's Cup. Scotland humiliated the World Cup holders of England, a match that featured a fist fight at half time between Baxter and Law about which was a more humiliating sight - a load of goals or playing keepie-uppie in front of them. There was a brief renaissance in the 80s as Aberdeen and Dundee United proved they were the equal of... erm... Nottingham Forest... but that was pretty much it. No longer were the English leagues full of Scotsmen being overpaid, and Scotland could no longer look at England as a wee team who you normally beat.

So what went wrong? Personally, I think the loss of heavy industry is a major part. Where are all the players at lunchtimes with rags bound in dockyard tape? Working in call centres and playing five a side in a gym hall once a week. Kids don't go out as much any more and estates don't have big enough spaces to build a pitch on. Perhaps more crucially, it's very expensive to take kids to the match now.

Plus, of course, it's frequently excruciating to watch. I remember a Hearts/Motherwell game a couple of seasons ago, the highlights of which were one (count it) off-target shot. That was it. The lower divisions are worse, often living up entirely to "22 grown men chasing an inflated bladder around" except that not all of them can be arsed so only about 5 actually chase it. The rest might as well be sitting in front of the telly with 20 fags instead of playing. As Taggart once said, "You think this is murder? You've never been to Firhill." I remember being inducted at an early age by watching Dunfermline play at East Stirling. I don't remember much more than my pie and sitting on railway sleepers in the red ash, but that was enough. It was the start of 30 years of misery.

The highlights, however, have always been the players. Jim Baxter, whose legendary mazy runs may have been due to the amount of booze he had consumed. Jimmy Johnstone, getting lost in a rowing boat. Denis Law, a fox sucking a lemon. The 1978 World Cup squad not letting football get in the way of getting pished on holiday.

But there must be a favourite, and mine is Charles 'Chic' Charnley. Chic is a man's man. Sent off more than any other player in football history, Chic could have been one of the greats and even Franz Beckenbauer said as much. But... eh... Chic liked the drink a wee bit. And the pies. And the fighting in the park with samurai swords. And all the rest of it. Capable of genius on the park, but just as capable of throwing up on your shoes on a Saturday night, Chic was one of us and that's why I love him.

aldo_cowpat (aldo_cowpat), Thursday, 28 July 2005 12:54 (eighteen years ago) link

LEGEND

Onimo (GerryNemo), Thursday, 28 July 2005 13:32 (eighteen years ago) link

I just had a flashback to singing "Andy Ritchie's baws are always itchy"
:-/

xp

That can isn't purple. FAKE JIMMY BUNNIT!

Onimo (GerryNemo), Thursday, 28 July 2005 13:36 (eighteen years ago) link

Reminds me of the old joke:

Q: What's Lionel Richie's African cousin called?
A: Mboza

Dadaismus (Dada), Thursday, 28 July 2005 13:41 (eighteen years ago) link

held the World Cup winning Hungary side to a goalless draw in their national stadium

Really? Aside from the fact that Hungary never won the WC (but, fair enough, they were supreme in the 50s), I can't find anything on the Web about this.

Scotland, World Champions 1967 indeed. At least until October when that title passed to Northern Ireland, of course.

Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Thursday, 28 July 2005 14:00 (eighteen years ago) link

Booze:

For all my talk of national characteristics, there's one thing more than anything that makes the Scots Scottish.

The bevvy.
The peeve.
Getting pished.
THE BOOZE.

But not just the desire for drink, a trait which I'm sure you'll agree many nations share such as the Irish, the Scandinavians, the Eastern Europeans and England fans in Union Flag swimming trunks in Spain, it's the desire to consume in flagrant contradiction of legality or even just plain good taste that marks us out.

Witness, for example, the spectacle at Christmas. Small children, even the under-5s, are force-fed advocaat by well meaning grannies like French geese (with comparable effect on their livers) in the misguided belief it's "not really drinking" till they vomit spectacular rivers of eggy spew. "Poor wee love, it must be all the excitement." Aye, obviously.

Is it any wonder, then, that we continue the habit as soon as we get the chance? Alcopops were a bit of a godsend for a nation with a hugely sweet tooth, but we go for the hardcore ones rather than the bog-standard breezers. Mad Dog 20/20 drunk neat! Tonic wine! Thunderbird! These are the drinks or your glorious Scottish alkie, not johnny-come-latelys like WKD (even if it is Irn Bru flavoured). I mean come on, the Lanark triangle kept a certain community of monks in cassocks for years, and has given them enough money to buy sandals for ever more.

The inventiveness doesn't end there, however. Many big industrial sites used to have their own bars, where men would fight to pour as many drinks as possible down their throats during their lunch break before going back and trying to put a half shift in. (Seriously, I've seen people drink upwards of 6 pints in 30 minutes) But what if you worked on a site where there wasn't a bar? Well then you had to get creative. If you worked on a site where it was used, acetone wasn't half bad with the right amount of mixer. If you didn't, then it was a matter of resorting to the slightly more fragrant, and therefore harder to mix, photocopier fluid. THESE ARE NOT AS BAD DRINKS AS THEY SOUND. My knowing this may be A BAD THING.

But I suppose, at the end of the day, the best things about Scottish booze are the common things. Even the mass produced lagers are OK, but there are some great beers including the pick of the bunch, Caledonian 80/-. There's a craving for dark rum that probably beats that of anywhere else in the world. And then there's the water of life, the malt. If you don't like one, then you just haven't tried enough. There's one there for you somewhere.

If you're at the bar, I'll have a hauf and a hauf pint. Heavy, aye.

aldo_cowpat (aldo_cowpat), Thursday, 28 July 2005 14:21 (eighteen years ago) link

I clearly second Chic Charnley.

KeefW (kmw), Thursday, 28 July 2005 18:26 (eighteen years ago) link

Aldo, do you have nothing better to do, like a job or something? :)

Mädchen (Madchen), Thursday, 28 July 2005 18:41 (eighteen years ago) link

pot. kettle.
BACK TO WORK MADCHEN!

dahlin (dahlin), Thursday, 28 July 2005 18:45 (eighteen years ago) link

Aldo, do you have nothing better to do, like a job or something? :)

He didn't get a bonus. The first thing you do at work after receiving such news is NOTHING PRODUCTIVE. I got the same news today and I spent my afternoon ranting about Celtic's ineptitude - aldo's rants have been more interesting, though I'll never forgive him for calling me a posh hun because I buy the occasional Herald.

Onimo (GerryNemo), Thursday, 28 July 2005 18:54 (eighteen years ago) link

Unfortunately, someone upthread mentioned "lucrative".

If "lucrative" meant even the possibility of a penny a year, given it's fun and 1) my job isn't and 2) the bonus is worth the square root of fuck all (in real terms, it's actually about two weeks wages, but you're supposed to work hard all year to get it and these are more or less real time - with work fitting in wherever) then doing this instead of actually working is several orders of magnitude "better".

Fuck me, I wish I could just write pish for a living. With an editor these screeds might be almost entertaining.

aldo_cowpat (aldo_cowpat), Thursday, 28 July 2005 20:18 (eighteen years ago) link

Hold on... The Marmalade.

KeefW (kmw), Thursday, 28 July 2005 20:27 (eighteen years ago) link

http://idisk.mac.com/stephentrousse/Public/ra.gif

Jerry the Nipper (Jerrynipper), Thursday, 28 July 2005 20:35 (eighteen years ago) link

Are these part of your "gritty street urchins" collection Stevie?

KeefW (kmw), Thursday, 28 July 2005 20:48 (eighteen years ago) link

Is Madchen a Brit who lives in Scotland or a Scot who lives in England? I never did know.

MaryMary, Thursday, 28 July 2005 20:55 (eighteen years ago) link

she's english, in scotland


ally looks so young, in that photo!!!

RJG (RJG), Thursday, 28 July 2005 21:04 (eighteen years ago) link

a "brit" who lives in scotland. umm, yes :)

grimly fiendish (grimlord), Thursday, 28 July 2005 21:06 (eighteen years ago) link

so do you RJG!

Cathy (Cathy), Thursday, 28 July 2005 21:11 (eighteen years ago) link

Sigh. Today's chapter of my Scots history was all about the '45 and Culluden and all that. Terribly depressing.

Masonic Boom (kate), Friday, 29 July 2005 07:00 (eighteen years ago) link


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