When I was a kid (7-8), my favorite movie was "The Wiz." My school friend Kianga and I, along with a few other kids, put on an playacting production of the show in school at one point. I played the wis, and tried my best to dress up like Richard Pryor, including an afro wig and blackface. My motivations were totally positive--I loved the movie and was trying to emulate something I loved. Kianga played Dorothy--she was black, and didn't use blackface. Neither one of us had any idea what the context of blackface was.
The more interesting questions to me revolve around whether *the parents* recognized the faux pas here, and what that means. I wouldn't let my kid do it either, but the problem comes when I try to explain to him or her why doing it is wrong--in a better world, where the historical context of blackface was less clearly terribly, it seems that my child could take exactly the *wrong* message away from being forbidden to dress up as Ben Wallace of whoever, and that message could perpetuate for yet another generation the fallacy that there is something a priori wrong/different/lesser/frightening/whatever about people of different races.
I mean obviously, we're not in that world, but what's the right solution here?
― J (Jay), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 17:47 (eighteen years ago) link
― ken c (ken c), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 17:47 (eighteen years ago) link
― sfxxx, Tuesday, 1 November 2005 17:48 (eighteen years ago) link
xpost thank you ally thank you stelfox!!
― _, Tuesday, 1 November 2005 17:49 (eighteen years ago) link
You know as well as everyone else that he meant wigs and has even since backed off that, so what are you even getting at?
Why's Ben Wallace with a wig and no blackface such a crap costume? I mean, it's Halloween. No one is especially authentic. I had foam abs on my old Batman costume, but it was recognizable enough that I was Batman though the whole thing was made of spandex and foam. A white kid with a Ben Wallace type afro wig, the Ben Wallace jersey, and saying "I'm Ben Wallace" is really authentic/recognizable enough.
― Candicissima (candicissima), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 17:49 (eighteen years ago) link
― sexyDancer (sexyDancer), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 17:49 (eighteen years ago) link
― sfxxx, Tuesday, 1 November 2005 17:50 (eighteen years ago) link
― sexyDancer (sexyDancer), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 17:51 (eighteen years ago) link
― _, Tuesday, 1 November 2005 17:51 (eighteen years ago) link
Yeah, that's why I keep asking how old these kids were cos that can make a big difference in this argument, quite frankly as to whether their parents condoned it, just how innocent it might or might not have been, etc.
xpost J I think that's what Dan was getting at, about how it's just as likely a kid might take away the wrong message as the right one, dependent on WHY he wanted to dress that way, how old he was, how it was explained exactly, etc etc.
xxpost ethan like I said part of the problem seriously was your (well admittedly somewhat overblown argument tho really that's how we roll) argument getting conflated with someone else's argument as well that it's not even ok for white kids to wanna wear negro league stuff and feeling guilty for having red and black and green beads. The lines were purty blurry for a while in my head who was saying what actually, but that is cos I need more coffee.
― Allyzay knows a little German (allyzay), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 17:51 (eighteen years ago) link
― miccio (miccio), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 17:53 (eighteen years ago) link
― sfxxx, Tuesday, 1 November 2005 17:55 (eighteen years ago) link
I was Batman for like 3 years in a row in high school.
― Candicissima (candicissima), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 17:55 (eighteen years ago) link
Um, it's not (other than the fact that I don't like the Pistons!), that was my point! That without the blackface is ok! If you reread the original post, it was stated that this wouldn't be ok.
― Allyzay knows a little German (allyzay), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 17:55 (eighteen years ago) link
You mean that picture alone? Yeah, it is kinda funny.
All of these blog entries have taught me that apparently, blackface is still a common practice. I mean, "Shirley Q. Liquor". Good grief.
― Pleasant Plains /// (Pleasant Plains ///), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 17:55 (eighteen years ago) link
― J (Jay), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 17:55 (eighteen years ago) link
― strongo hulkington's ghost (dubplatestyle), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 17:56 (eighteen years ago) link
And yes Ben Wallace is a RUBBISH Halloween costume because he is just a normal human.
― Sociah T Azzahole (blueski), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 17:56 (eighteen years ago) link
fuck that, things aren't ever that rigid! There are many explicable and inoffensive contexts for use of a word like "nigger" (swap in 'spic' or 'faggot' or 'bitch' or what-have-you…) be they scholastic, illustrative, recaimed, or as emblematic of a particular attitude or speech pattern. Provided they're used with an awareness of their history and context, and among people who understand their use as other than blankly derisive or for labelling purposes, I hardly see any reason why we should continue to avoid them at all costs. It's privileging in this way that continues to keep them powerful and hurtful.
― Remy (x Jeremy), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 17:56 (eighteen years ago) link
― miccio (miccio), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 17:57 (eighteen years ago) link
― _, Tuesday, 1 November 2005 17:57 (eighteen years ago) link
― Remy (x Jeremy), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 17:57 (eighteen years ago) link
― Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 17:58 (eighteen years ago) link
Such a stupid blanket statement.
― jdubz (ex machina), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 17:58 (eighteen years ago) link
― Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 17:59 (eighteen years ago) link
― _, Tuesday, 1 November 2005 17:59 (eighteen years ago) link
― _, Tuesday, 1 November 2005 18:00 (eighteen years ago) link
if i were a parent perhaps i will, as well as teaching them not to offend people with blackface etc., also to teach them not to take offence themselves of these things that are, fairly outdated ideas/connotations.
i think this would make the world a better place.
― ken c (ken c), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 18:01 (eighteen years ago) link
surely that's a bonus.
― ken c (ken c), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 18:02 (eighteen years ago) link
― miccio (miccio), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 18:03 (eighteen years ago) link
-- jdubz (dr_...), November 1st, 2005.
yes, we know stelfox can do much better
― ILX, Tuesday, 1 November 2005 18:03 (eighteen years ago) link
― Laura H. (laurah), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 18:03 (eighteen years ago) link
plz note also said creation and consumption occurs against a backdrop of of nasty homophobia as well
― J (Jay), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 18:04 (eighteen years ago) link
― hstencil (hstencil), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 18:05 (eighteen years ago) link
― _, Tuesday, 1 November 2005 18:06 (eighteen years ago) link
http://www.screenselect.co.uk/images/products/7/1327-large.jpg
I'll get my coat.
― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 18:07 (eighteen years ago) link
you can kinda see how some fucked up kid might draw the conclusion that hitler would make a good costume
better ban GTA while you're at it
― gabbneb (gabbneb), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 18:07 (eighteen years ago) link
1) algierz baller caricature stuff
i got given a heap of this stuff and i do admit, i only ever bust it out when the rest of my clothes smell, because i feel a complete twat in it!
― sfxxx, Tuesday, 1 November 2005 18:07 (eighteen years ago) link
― _, Tuesday, 1 November 2005 18:08 (eighteen years ago) link
― Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 18:09 (eighteen years ago) link
― ken c (ken c), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 18:10 (eighteen years ago) link
― Pashmina (Pashmina), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 18:11 (eighteen years ago) link
u musn't have been here long
― comment, Tuesday, 1 November 2005 18:12 (eighteen years ago) link
― Pashmina (Pashmina), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 18:13 (eighteen years ago) link
― Remy (x Jeremy), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 18:14 (eighteen years ago) link
― _, Tuesday, 1 November 2005 18:17 (eighteen years ago) link
This is precisely what I mean: bad analogies.
― Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 18:18 (eighteen years ago) link