it TOTALLY rules. LG is crazy.
― Janet Snakehole (VegemiteGrrl), Thursday, 30 June 2011 01:56 (thirteen years ago) link
Also re the whole 'formula' argument: Mad Men is just a formulaic as Justified. Mad Men is an uber-stylish soap opera! It's SO soapy it's ridiculous. I love Mad Men, don't get me wrong. But it's as formulaic a soap opera as Justified is a cop show.
― Janet Snakehole (VegemiteGrrl), Thursday, 30 June 2011 02:04 (thirteen years ago) link
imo mad men is def subtler/orignialer/better than justified but like its better than most shows so thats really not damning - and as i said upthread justfied is totally knowing re its use of formula, i mean it def tries to have it both ways, but it works out p well imo
― ice cr?m, Thursday, 30 June 2011 02:13 (thirteen years ago) link
I guess it's just do you like hats/guns or hats/brooding :)
― Janet Snakehole (VegemiteGrrl), Thursday, 30 June 2011 02:19 (thirteen years ago) link
At the end of the day, it's all hats. Surely we can come together on that.
they stopped wearing hats in mad men tbh :(
― ice cr?m, Thursday, 30 June 2011 02:19 (thirteen years ago) link
oh shit, you're right. I just always remember it with hats.
― Janet Snakehole (VegemiteGrrl), Thursday, 30 June 2011 02:22 (thirteen years ago) link
can we talk more about Timothy Olyphant? and that cute sniper guy that's his sidekick?
― Janet Snakehole (VegemiteGrrl), Thursday, 30 June 2011 02:23 (thirteen years ago) link
a perfect getaway is p good
― ice cr?m, Thursday, 30 June 2011 02:26 (thirteen years ago) link
― horseshoe, Thursday, 30 June 2011 02:27 (thirteen years ago) link
he sneaks up on you, but yes. super handsome. and he has a lovely drawl. Apparently he was the lead in Eurotrip? Which hurts my head. I so don't want to see that movie.
― Janet Snakehole (VegemiteGrrl), Thursday, 30 June 2011 02:31 (thirteen years ago) link
ive seen eurotrip at least lol 3 times, it was on cable a lot, its p hilar in its own way, hes not the lead but he has a big part - scotty doesnt know scotty doesnt know dont tell scotty --matt damon
― ice cr?m, Thursday, 30 June 2011 02:33 (thirteen years ago) link
hmm
― Janet Snakehole (VegemiteGrrl), Thursday, 30 June 2011 03:16 (thirteen years ago) link
this is not really the type of movie you want to watch 'on purpose'
― ice cr?m, Thursday, 30 June 2011 03:17 (thirteen years ago) link
jus fyi
― ice cr?m, Thursday, 30 June 2011 03:18 (thirteen years ago) link
I had a feeling
― Janet Snakehole (VegemiteGrrl), Thursday, 30 June 2011 03:44 (thirteen years ago) link
local garda otm in this thread -- justified is a fine show with flashes of greatness (and i would rather watch it than mad men, but that doesn't matter because i'd rather watch almost anything over mad men), but it's kind of, i dunno, basic. last season totally stepped up but the reviews going 'omg it's the wire for the appalachians!' were just ridic.
― let a :) be your ☂ (some dude), Thursday, 30 June 2011 04:42 (thirteen years ago) link
Mostly everything that gets compared to 'The Wire' is wishful-thinking/shameless hyperbole. Brits did it hardcore with the Danish The Killing.
re: Mad Men being a soap vs. this: Mad Men is so character based that the plots hinge not on what actually happens but how the characters react to them. That's what we're watching for and that's what makes it great. Justified doesn't quite do that in the same way: Lots of viewer interest relies on what Mags and her clan is up to/how Raylon and Winona are going to get out of the evidence box fiasco/whatever happened in the few stand-alones. It's just the way the show is designed, and at the moment, that can only allow for so much of the character development that a lot of people think makes shows like Mad Men great. If they were to try a predominately two-person episode (perhaps a bottle, perhaps not) like "The Suitcase" or "The Fly", I'm not sure how well it would work. Though I'd love to see them try.
― Gukbe, Thursday, 30 June 2011 04:48 (thirteen years ago) link
some dude, no offense but you like rizzoli and isles.
― polyphonic, Thursday, 30 June 2011 05:05 (thirteen years ago) link
Just because they don't quote fuckin' Socrates or make meta commentaries on the state of domestic politics via meth labs doesn't diminish it one bit.
this argument's getting way too snooty for my liking.
― Janet Snakehole (VegemiteGrrl), Thursday, 30 June 2011 05:11 (thirteen years ago) link
basic.
PAH.
PAH I SAY.
I love Justified! I'm just saying that it should be approached differently from shows like Mad Men, and shouldn't be compared.
― Gukbe, Thursday, 30 June 2011 07:17 (thirteen years ago) link
ireland, the most cosmopolitan country in the world
mm
might want to get your sarcasm radar rewired.
i agree the comparison thing is kinda stupid, i didn't really go down that road to begin with, it was foisted on me!
Mad Men is so character based that the plots hinge not on what actually happens but how the characters react to them.
but there's still a fairly good plot, like even within that this is telling a story about people's lives and the events that they react to are interesting/funny.
breaking bad manages to balance a really intense plot with just perfect character development all the way through, like how it manages to pace each episode and make every moment feel so deftly used is amazing.
if we are to compare it's probably a better comparison point. i also disagree with the notion that wanting something that gets really raw and deep into its characters is somehow snooty or something. it's not, it's just exciting.
― MAYBE YOU SHOULDN'T BE LIVING HERE!! (Local Garda), Thursday, 30 June 2011 08:08 (thirteen years ago) link
― polyphonic, Thursday, June 30, 2011 1:05 AM (6 hours ago) Bookmark
i like Justified more fwiw, and there is a large difference of context between saying a highly praised and ilx-popular show isn't quite what people have hyped it up to be and saying that a show noone gives a shit about is pretty decent and watchable. but y'know whatever weakass ad hominem you want to use to discredit my opinion, "no offense."
― let a :) be your ☂ (some dude), Thursday, 30 June 2011 11:10 (thirteen years ago) link
sometimes shows just dont 'click' with people, for example i think community is petty funny but ilx thinks its the best sitcom of the decade, nothing you can do about that really, the thing is though, justified is really effing good
― ☂ (max), Thursday, 30 June 2011 13:20 (thirteen years ago) link
it might be because i have come to a lot of these shows after a long time never watching any tv drama, and i think with justified it feels too much "like a tv show" before i stopped watching stuff.
― LocalGarda, Thursday, 30 June 2011 13:29 (thirteen years ago) link
Ah....okay well that makes sense. See I probably watch more TV than anything else, and I kinda like the genre stuff that still behaves like regular tv.
― Janet Snakehole (VegemiteGrrl), Thursday, 30 June 2011 14:10 (thirteen years ago) link
having said all this i will watch s3, just prob like s2, when there's a lull between other stuff i like a bit better. it's still entertaining.
― LocalGarda, Thursday, 30 June 2011 14:14 (thirteen years ago) link
now i feel bad; mad men was just a red herring because i was mad. sorry!
― horseshoe, Thursday, 30 June 2011 14:45 (thirteen years ago) link
there's a reason it's not called happy ladies iirc
― let a :) be your ☂ (some dude), Thursday, 30 June 2011 14:51 (thirteen years ago) link
― LocalGarda, Thursday, June 30, 2011 9:29 AM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
justified is v 'tv-showy' but imo it kinda transcends the form via knowingness/having such attention to detail
― ice cr?m, Thursday, 30 June 2011 15:35 (thirteen years ago) link
weakass ad hominem
I just find it odd that you like that show, but this show is "basic" and Mad Men is no good at all. Diff'rent strokes, I guess.
― polyphonic, Thursday, 30 June 2011 15:36 (thirteen years ago) link
why would a tv show need to transcend the form the form is awesome >:[
― horseshoe, Thursday, 30 June 2011 15:37 (thirteen years ago) link
it doesnt need to
― ice cr?m, Thursday, 30 June 2011 15:39 (thirteen years ago) link
i can't even track who i'm mad at itt anymore
― horseshoe, Thursday, 30 June 2011 15:39 (thirteen years ago) link
i think the ways in which this show is meta are kind of not at the heart of it anyway; i just assume the writers get bored and like to amuse themselves with it.
― horseshoe, Thursday, 30 June 2011 15:40 (thirteen years ago) link
and they are interested in genre as a thing so they like to comment on it
oh and another thing i liek abt it thats not boilerplate tv drama is how the plot for next week episode starts at the end of the previous week, gives it a nice rhythm
― ice cr?m, Thursday, 30 June 2011 15:41 (thirteen years ago) link
idk i think the meta thing is v much written into the main character so
― ice cr?m, Thursday, 30 June 2011 15:42 (thirteen years ago) link
because of the hat or
― horseshoe, Thursday, 30 June 2011 15:42 (thirteen years ago) link
polyphonic there are shades of nuance and context to why anyone expresses enjoyment of one thing and dislike of another. a lot of things are "odd" if you boil them down to reductive better than/less than rankings that I never actually expressed.
― let a :) be your ☂ (some dude), Thursday, 30 June 2011 15:43 (thirteen years ago) link
also yeah i don't see the meta at all really
i think the "meta" thing is kind of "standard" elmore leonard knowingness/irony. its not really very winky or tarantino look-at-me its just kind of... leonard at his very best (& this show) is good at acknowledging that hes working within a set of well-worn tropes without it feeling all "CHECK THIS OUT GUYS"
― ☂ (max), Thursday, 30 June 2011 15:44 (thirteen years ago) link
right, the thing about leonard and also about good tv shows is that they celebrate conventions of genre.
― horseshoe, Thursday, 30 June 2011 15:45 (thirteen years ago) link
they don't pretend they're better than them.
― horseshoe, Thursday, June 30, 2011 11:42 AM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
well the hat and him killing people in shootouts all the time, in a more straightforward show hed be celebrated for this sort of behavior, but here everyones rolling their eyes like this guy - its sort of like the macgruber movie in that way if anyone follows lol
― ice cr?m, Thursday, 30 June 2011 15:47 (thirteen years ago) link
― horseshoe, Thursday, June 30, 2011 11:45 AM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
eh imo it goes beyond celebration, like its not disparaging them, but its not taking them seriously either, its more i guess playful, which is great
― ice cr?m, Thursday, 30 June 2011 15:48 (thirteen years ago) link
yeah, it is playful, but i mean, i don't think leonard would have a problem with being called a genre writer
― horseshoe, Thursday, 30 June 2011 15:49 (thirteen years ago) link
that's what genre is good for it gives you a set of conventions to play around with
whoa so the sniper was the skinny david spade dude in eurotrip
no shit
― ☂ (max), Thursday, 30 June 2011 15:50 (thirteen years ago) link