US POLITICS SPRING 2011: Let's just call off this country.

yep

Yeah, basically the GOP is dealing with two very different groups, tea partiers and big business. The tea partiers pretty much refuse to raise the debt ceiling without massive cuts and zero revenues. Big business OTOH just wants to get the debt ceiling raised and be done with it because they understand that it will be economically catestrophic to leave it along. The GOP leadership is obviously leaning toward the big business (and more reasonable) view and is trying to find a way out of this mess without losing too much face.

without losing too much face.many seats

fixed

honestly, I think they may be screwed in terms of the elections next year either way, but we'll see.

please someone straighten me out if i'm wrong, but it seems like President Obama missed an opportunity to advocate for something like he is now pushing several months ago, maybe even during the lame duck session? did the WH anticipate that letting it get to this point would smoke out the crazies? because it kind of has, so um kudos?

imo it was pretty evident he would come to the center (or even further right? i don't even know any more...) at some point; why not skip all the pressure-cooker theatrics and just, you know, say "hey fuck y'all we're doing x,y,z (ie. basically using the template the Simpson-Bowles commission laid out). get on board or the ensuing bullshit is all on your hands."

honestly, I think they may be screwed in terms of the elections next year either way, but we'll see.

I think they totally are, but I seem to be in the minority opinion about that

i mean, his base can't yell "sellout" any louder than they already are

xpost

honestly, I think they may be screwed in terms of the elections next year either way, but we'll see.

sort of depends on how many resentful, addled tea-partiers and tea party sympathizers kick the bucket before the next election. those guys aren't going to change teams based on *facts*

my friend found this toddler-sized t-shirt in Bangkok and bought it for his 2 year old, thought it belonged here:
http://i.imgur.com/NYO0Y.jpg

Shakey: I'm convinced that the dems will gain seats in the house (although maybe not regain control), hold on to the Senate, and Obama will be re-elected. Even if the GOP holds on to the house, they are going to have a much more difficult time enforcing their will (not that it works great now) after 2012.

will: Obama definitely should have dealt with the debt-ceiling during the lame duck session, delaying it led us to this current mess.

registered oemocrin

OBTL HYM of teh SPLSLIC

registered oemocrin

― ☂ (max), Wednesday, July 13, 2011 11:24 AM (7 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/hprofile-ak-snc4/50260_286043192531_7243484_n.jpg

please someone straighten me out if i'm wrong, but it seems like President Obama missed an opportunity to advocate for something like he is now pushing several months ago, maybe even during the lame duck session?

yes yes yes

someone correct me if i'm wrong, but extending the bush tax cuts was a temporary measure, wasn't it? wouldn't letting them expire solve a great huge whomping chunk of the deficit "problem"?

I said this yesterday: the debt ceiling argument is lovely and I'm happy Macca is in trouble, but let's talk about SS and Medicare again.

like, why isn't that being factored in, since by current law they will expire?

xpost

someone correct me if i'm wrong, but extending the bush tax cuts was a temporary measure, wasn't it?

2012 they expire again, but no one, including the President has any interest in allowing it to happen.

yeah time will tell if democrats will be ready by next (election) year to wage war on taxes, but lol doubtful

this is MN state stuff, but holy shiiiiiit

http://www.startribune.com/politics/statelocal/125459928.html

Hundreds of bars, restaurants and stores across Minnesota are running out of beer and alcohol and others may soon run out of cigarettes -- a subtle and largely unforeseen consequence of a state government shutdown.

In the days leading up to the shutdown, thousands of outlets scrambled to renew their state-issued liquor purchasing cards. Many of them did not make it.

Now, with no end in sight to the shutdown, they face a summer of fast-dwindling alcohol supplies and a bottom line that looks increasingly bleak.

OK, that's a burn-the-Bastille moment.

That'll put an end to that standoff toot sweet. If govt has any function at all, it's to keep people liquored up!

xp

Taibbi:

The blindness of the DLC-era "Third Way" Democratic Party continues to be an astounding thing. For more than a decade now they have been clinging to the idea that the path to electoral success is social liberalism plus laissez-faire economics – in other words, get Wall Street and corporate America to fund your campaigns, and get minorities, pro-choice and gay marriage activists (who will always frightened into loyalty by the Tea Party/Christian loonies on the other side) to march at your rallies and vote every November. They've abandoned the unions-and-jobs platform that was the party's anchor since Roosevelt, and the latest innovations all involve peeling back their own policy legacies from the 20th century. Obama's new plan, for instance, might involve slashing Medicare and Social Security under "pressure" from the Republicans.

I simply don't believe the Democrats would really be worse off with voters if they committed themselves to putting people back to work, policing Wall Street, throwing their weight behind a real public option in health care, making hedge fund managers pay the same tax rates as ordinary people, ending the pointless wars abroad, etc. That they won't do these things because they're afraid of public criticism, and "responding to pressure," is an increasingly transparent lie. This "Please, Br'er Fox, don't throw me into dat dere briar patch" deal isn't going to work for much longer. Just about everybody knows now that they want to go into that briar patch.

If the debt-ceiling impasse threatens future beer summits, I know President Obama will act.

god the post is so horrible. why in fuck is this in the STYLE section??

http://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/grover-norquist-the-anti-tax-enforcer-behind-the-scenes-of-the-debt-debate/2011/07/12/gIQAPGNSBI_story.html

[Norquist] has, he said, been in e-mail contact “on a regular basis” with “leadership and leadership staff” during the debt talks, “just to check in to see if there was anything they needed from me.” When he read in the news that House Speaker John A. Boehner (R-Ohio), a pledge-taker, was apparently considering a compromise, he simply dropped him a note asking, “What did you say?”

I seem to recall some story about Grover Norquist sleeping with a giant Planter's Peanut statue next to his bed, but can't find anything about it... was this just some horrible nightmare I had

As he meticulously folded sheets of newspaper, adjusted business cards, repositioned scissors and laid down a stress ball next to a pair of hand grips, Norquist acknowledged issuing gentle reminders to pledge-takers.

When he read in the news that House Speaker John A. Boehner (R-Ohio), a pledge-taker, was apparently considering a compromise, he simply dropped him a note asking, “What did you say?”

OK I laughed.

I think I have read weird stuff about him.

said this yesterday: the debt ceiling argument is lovely and I'm happy Macca is in trouble, but let's talk about SS and Medicare again.

― The Edge of Gloryhole (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, July 13, 2011

Why? You get joy about hearing Obama say cutting them is good and necessary?

A reminder that no one "wins" this family feud.

If you're rich and don't need to rely on SS and Medicare,then one might consider it a win that instead of using "progressive" ideas to shore up these programs, Obama and Republicans are just advocating slash and burn

it's a "win" if the GOP nominates Bachmann right.

When he read in the news that House Speaker John A. Boehner (R-Ohio), a pledge-taker, was apparently considering a compromise, he simply dropped him a note asking, “What did you say?”

http://www.pluggd.in/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/don-corleone-checklist.jpg

At least somebody gets it. But I don't know what "fake cuts" the reader is excoriating Obama for.

With apologies to Rob Sheffield:

BOEHNER: A month ago he brought up this debt-ceiling business. A sure winner--I wouldn't even have to act, just be myself. “Taxes, deficit, spending cuts, blah, blah, blah.” Oh, Grover, I don't know what to do. I don't know what to do.

GROVER: You can act like a man! What's the matter with you? Is this how you turned out? A Washington finocchio that cries like a woman? “What can I do?! What can I do?!” What is that nonsense? Ridiculous. (To Boehner, after glancing to see Mitch McConnell enter) You spend time with your base?

BOEHNER: Sure I do.

GROVER: Good. ‘Cause a wingnut who doesn’t spend time with other wingnuts can never be a real wingnut...Come're. You look terrible. I want you to eat. I want you to rest a while. And in a month from now, this Muslim phony’s gonna give you what you want.

haha, i originally was thinking sosa from scarface, threatening to unleash a hit squad of ninja Teabaggers if boehner so much as thought of not setting off the car bomb capitulating on the debt ceiling. then i remembered that tony montana was defiant till the bloody end which is so un-boehner. so vito corleone it is.

not sure who this twitterer is, but, lol

http://twitter.com/#!/cate_long/status/91158825503166464

Ron Paul to Bernanke: "Is gold money?" Bernanke: "No it's a precious metal". Paul: "Why do central banks hold it?" Bernanke: "Tradition."

that's great

bhahahahahahaaaa

But I don't know what "fake cuts" the reader is excoriating Obama for.

Is this a reference to December when Obama agreed to cuts and then they turned out to be the government not spending money it was going to spend on projects that have not started, and other accounting gimmicks?

no he's referring to something in the more recently offered deal. why he thinks those cuts are "fake" is beyond me. They come from the budget, does that mean including them in the deficit is also "fake"?

Although I see some have attacked prior Obama claimed defense cuts as fake:

http://ij-poli-blog.blogspot.com/2011/06/obamas-deep-cuts-in-military-spending.html

this piece quotes the following from a Forbes blog:

Mr. Obama’s new and improved plan for slimming down America’s national-security posture likely will entail little sacrifice for the federal government’s biggest source of discretionary spending, the Department of Defense. It’s not that there isn’t plenty of wasteful spending to be found — the Army will spend over $2 billion during the period in question just on its music bands — but the way the President has couched his proposed savings minimizes their likely impact on security (and the deficit). Let’s take a look at some of the factors mitigating what seems like a very big cut in spending.

I'm guessing fake cuts means cuts that don't directly alter the nature of the service being cut. For example, cuts to Medicare will only be real when seniors are actually dying on the streets.

jonathan chait linked to this:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/17/magazine/how-kevin-mccarthy-wrangles-the-tea-party.html

Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner has said that the government will be unable to meet its financial obligations by Aug. 2 unless Congress permits it to borrow more. The freshmen have not been shy on this subject, either. McCarthy informally polled them when they first came to town in November for orientation. All but four of them said they would vote against raising the ceiling, under any circumstances. Then McCarthy (along with Ryan and the House Ways and Means chairman, Dave Camp) began conducting more listening sessions. The whip recognized that it would be counterproductive to lecture the freshmen about the economic hazards of not raising the debt ceiling. He also realized that it’s one thing to pass a budget — which in the end is a nonbinding political document — and another thing to throw America into default. And so McCarthy has urged them to consider raising the ceiling under certain conditions and thus to view this moment as a golden opportunity to force significant changes from the White House. “We all ran for a reason,” he tells them. “What’s most of concern to you? What is it that we think will change America?”

As a result, the freshmen have begun to move away from a hard “no” on raising the debt ceiling to a “yes, if.” In the conference room, several freshmen have said they’ll vote to raise the ceiling only if the president agrees to repeal his health care legislation. Or if Obama signs into law a constitutional amendment to balance the budget, after all 50 states have ratified it. Or if he’ll agree to mandatory caps on all nondefense spending. Or if he’ll enact the Ryan budget. The whip writes down all their ideas on a notepad. He never tells them that they’re being unrealistic

Or if Obama signs into law a constitutional amendment to balance the budget, after all 50 states have ratified it.

okay if these ppl can go to Congress, why can't I

i cant believe im still shocked at how stupid our elected representatives are!

The whip writes down all their ideas on a notepad.

The whip recognized that it would be counterproductive to lecture the freshmen about the economic hazards of not raising the debt ceiling.

so responsible! whatta guy

Nobody told these fools that a balanced budget amendment would likely not pass constitutional muster.

i mean the guy basically set up a day-care for the tea party reps