Also the narrative you are getting is the result of a trial and series of appeals during which nearly all information was controlled by the prosecution, which has an interest in making them sound as savage as possible. If you want to feel better, read through some of these stories, which read like some of the exact same narratives, but resulted in innocent people getting railroaded: http://www.innocenceproject.org/
― Dave Zuul (Phil D.), Friday, 5 August 2011 20:10 (thirteen years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5DmYLrxR0Y8
― i'm sorry for whatever (Noodle Vague), Saturday, 6 August 2011 06:37 (thirteen years ago) link
from the restorejustice site:
In 1964 when hanging was abolished the murder rate was 6.3 per million, in 2010 it was 13.5 per million. If the “life-for-a-life” deterrent remained, thousands of lives would have been saved over the decades since 1964.
other notable events in 1964 that may have contributed to purported vast increase in murders:
* The Federation of Rhodesia and Nyasaland is dissolved.* The Beatles vault to the #1 spot on the U.S. singles charts for the first time, with "I Want to Hold Your Hand", forever changing the way popular music sounds to Americans, also starting the British Invasion in America.* Constantine II becomes King of Greece, upon the death of his father King Paul.* Terence Conran opens the first Habitat store on London's Fulham Road.* The Catholic Church condemns the female combined oral contraceptive pill.* Judith Graham Pool publishes her discovery of cryoprecipitate, a substance that extends the lives of hemophiliacs around the world.* Bob Dylan turns The Beatles on to cannabis for the first time* The Labour Party wins the parliamentary elections in the United Kingdom, ending 13 years of Conservative Party rule.
― ledge, Monday, 8 August 2011 13:25 (thirteen years ago) link
holy shit this kind of reasoning makes me kill 13.5M people per year
― a chaos of crevasses at cape crozier (gbx), Monday, 8 August 2011 14:02 (thirteen years ago) link
~want to~
― a chaos of crevasses at cape crozier (gbx), Monday, 8 August 2011 14:04 (thirteen years ago) link
no the figures speak for themselves, that's why in places with no deterrent like Texas or Florida the murder rate is a puny 55 per million or so
― i'm sorry for whatever (Noodle Vague), Monday, 8 August 2011 15:04 (thirteen years ago) link
http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/deterrence-states-without-death-penalty-have-had-consistently-lower-murder-rates
some telling statistics here on the deterrent effect
― i'm sorry for whatever (Noodle Vague), Monday, 8 August 2011 15:08 (thirteen years ago) link
can't read that now, but isn't the argument that if you have a death penalty, killers are practically incentivized to kill witnesses/accomplishes/etc since after the first kill they basically have nothing to lose
― a chaos of crevasses at cape crozier (gbx), Monday, 8 August 2011 15:16 (thirteen years ago) link
i've heard that argument, yeah. i would also argue that a regularly used death penalty creates a social landscape that devalues life. but i think the main conclusion is that severity of punishment does not deter, for whatever reason. i think there's evidence that the probability of being caught and convicted of a crime has some bearing on deterrence, but it doesn't really matter what the reasons are for the disconnect: anybody who argues for the death penalty on grounds of deterrence has very little evidence to support them.
― i'm sorry for whatever (Noodle Vague), Monday, 8 August 2011 15:39 (thirteen years ago) link
tell that to this guy
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/timstanley/100099693/as-britain-debates-the-death-penalty-again-studies-from-america-confirm-that-it-works/
― ledge, Monday, 8 August 2011 15:41 (thirteen years ago) link
why states with different policies on the death penalty have paradoxically differing murder rates is probably a pretty complex chicken-egg situation that depends on a lot of other factors other than the existence of the death penalty, to be fair.
― k3vin k., Monday, 8 August 2011 16:28 (thirteen years ago) link
xp
but yeah it's definitely not a deterrent, and even if it was it ~still wouldn't matter~
― k3vin k., Monday, 8 August 2011 16:31 (thirteen years ago) link
^^^this is the thing.
the 'utilitarian' argument for death penalty ("hey it works people, so") is still p gross imo
― a chaos of crevasses at cape crozier (gbx), Monday, 8 August 2011 16:32 (thirteen years ago) link
esp when one considers all the many other countries that DON'T have it and also have dramatically lower murder rates...hmmmmm is there something to be learned there? nah fuck it
― a chaos of crevasses at cape crozier (gbx), Monday, 8 August 2011 16:33 (thirteen years ago) link
xp agreed
― 10/11 of a dead jesus (darraghmac), Monday, 8 August 2011 16:38 (thirteen years ago) link
i think deterrence arguments for the death penalty are pretty deplorable but i think it's useful to be able to offer counter-arguments to people who use them. i read some interesting stuff a while back which looked at the numbers of executions in the same state over a 30 year period and compared those stats to murder rates and the general condition of the economy. once again, there was little correlation between number of executions and murder rate.
once you admit that the causes of changes in the murder rate are complex and multiple then i think any argument that still wants to attribute murder to innate criminality is made in very bad faith.
― i'm sorry for whatever (Noodle Vague), Monday, 8 August 2011 17:30 (thirteen years ago) link
but when i have these arguments with my dad, for example, it ends with him saying "i will believe in the death penalty whatever arguments you come up with, to be honest". cue shivery unpleasant feeling that i hate feeling about a loved one.
― i'm sorry for whatever (Noodle Vague), Monday, 8 August 2011 17:31 (thirteen years ago) link
couple this with listening to various authority figures scoring their usual points off the riots in London and I feel like "criminality" is one of the most disgusting, dishonest, atavistic voodoo-words in the English language at the moment.
― i'm sorry for whatever (Noodle Vague), Monday, 8 August 2011 17:33 (thirteen years ago) link
stuff like this always gives me a brief glimmer of hope for humanity
― you will always be wrong (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 14 September 2011 18:52 (thirteen years ago) link
yep
― stalk me shithead (from the makers of tickle me elmo) (k3vin k.), Wednesday, 14 September 2011 19:46 (thirteen years ago) link
The Death Penalty Should Not Still Exist In A 'Civilised Society'
― Juice Should Be Sterliized (Tom D.), Tuesday, 20 September 2011 13:49 (thirteen years ago) link
this is so, so tragic.
injustices like these are an inextricable part of capital punishment as a policy and if you support the death penalty at all you agree to countenence cases like this
― k3vin k., Tuesday, 20 September 2011 14:55 (thirteen years ago) link
the parole board just denied his application for clemency
― k3vin k., Tuesday, 20 September 2011 14:59 (thirteen years ago) link
Don't execute Troy Davis
― Juice Should Be Sterliized (Tom D.), Tuesday, 20 September 2011 16:33 (thirteen years ago) link
fucking disgusting country
― puff puff post (uh oh I'm having a fantasy), Tuesday, 20 September 2011 19:29 (thirteen years ago) link
This getting much coverage in the US? Not heard a word about it on BBC/Sky.
― Chris, Tuesday, 20 September 2011 21:44 (thirteen years ago) link
it's on my local news site, some others. dunno why it would be news for the BBC.
― I saw Mike Love walk by a computer once (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 20 September 2011 21:46 (thirteen years ago) link
CNN has been constantly running pictures of the victim with candles in front of them and tearful statements from the victim's mother about how anyone who is against capital punishment for TD is more evil than Hitler, Pol Pot, and Bill Gates combined. *facepalm*
― Christine Green Leafy Dragon Indigo, Tuesday, 20 September 2011 22:16 (thirteen years ago) link
it's my nature to be understanding of victim's families who support the death penalty but the mother/daughter (who was like, 2 at the time) of the dead favoring execution because it will "give them peace" is testing me a bit
― k3vin k., Tuesday, 20 September 2011 22:41 (thirteen years ago) link
Not heard a word about it on BBC/Sky.
Black man being executed in Georgia? Hold the front page. Still time to email, not much else can we do.
― Juice Should Be Sterliized (Tom D.), Wednesday, 21 September 2011 08:39 (thirteen years ago) link
Facebook link to point your friends to:
http://www.facebook.com/amnestyusa
― master musicians of jamiroquai (NickB), Wednesday, 21 September 2011 08:45 (thirteen years ago) link
my emotional investment in this case is like all-time high and i'm usually wary of media blow-up stuff
but this shit is happening today and the closer we get to it, i dunno. this guy seems more likely than not to be innocent, at least given the information i'm seeing, and it doesn't look like anyone's going to swoop in in spite of everything. i can't think of anything like this (outside of like harry potter book three) where everyone knows the wrong person is being punished except the people doing it.
― witchho (zachlyon), Wednesday, 21 September 2011 09:14 (thirteen years ago) link
and seriously, fuck the victim's daughter, fuck anyone who demands death in order to find "closure." that's already fucked up and wrong and sort of evil. it's incomprehensibly wrong when it reaches a point that she doesn't care if the accused did it or not. that's just bloodthirsty murder catharsis.
and it happened when she wasn't even two years old. she claims to have memories of her father even though he died before she was old enough for her brain to store memories. ASOGNSADLKFN'SDNF'ALSDNFA'S she is seriously talking about how her FAVORITE MEMORY is a family reunion and she actually says "last time we were all together." and she says she was a daddy's girl. YOU WERE A FUCKING BABY.
― witchho (zachlyon), Wednesday, 21 September 2011 09:27 (thirteen years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KKIaUN75EOs
can't understand anyone watching this and not thinking straight up evil
sorry you grew up without a dad that you assuredly don't remember, really shouldn't give you a free pass to kill an innocent man
― witchho (zachlyon), Wednesday, 21 September 2011 09:31 (thirteen years ago) link
seems like 'victim' is a key part of her identity, partly as cultivated by her mom. probably doesn't know anything else.
the world is a horrible place IMO.
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Wednesday, 21 September 2011 09:37 (thirteen years ago) link
watch the 'healing process' start for her when troy davis is dead. i'm sure she will be a-ok then.
I'm not going to get into criticizing murder victim's families, because who know how that fucks you up. Baby or not. No-one should executed. Full stop. Especially not a guy who might just be innocent.
― Juice Should Be Sterliized (Tom D.), Wednesday, 21 September 2011 09:39 (thirteen years ago) link
yeah i don't think you have to consider how wrong & improperly founded her opinions are; just that they should not influence the policy because they're obviously going to be so emotionally influenced
― 347.239.9791 stench hotline (schlump), Wednesday, 21 September 2011 09:45 (thirteen years ago) link
Georgia State Parole Board are blocking emails from Amnesty International but you can send an email using the page linked to above
― Juice Should Be Sterliized (Tom D.), Wednesday, 21 September 2011 11:24 (thirteen years ago) link
I wrote a long post in which I called you guys a lot of names, but I just erased it. Instead, I just want to say this.
OBVIOUSLY this guy shouldn't be executed. I've put in my calls to the Georgia Board of Pardons and the DA. But trashing the victim is some real low business.
― smelly's wife (rustic italian flatbread), Wednesday, 21 September 2011 12:24 (thirteen years ago) link
yeah dudes i am as anti-execution as anyone on here but directing yr bile at anyone but the govt is nagl
― forced to change display name (gbx), Wednesday, 21 September 2011 13:43 (thirteen years ago) link
I'm strongly opposed to the death penalty in all circumstances, especially when the evidence isn't 100% clear. That said, everything I read about this case convinces me that the guy is probably guilty.
― justfanoe (Greg Fanoe), Wednesday, 21 September 2011 14:33 (thirteen years ago) link
Someone from Amnesty UK has just been talking about this on BBC News.
― Chris, Wednesday, 21 September 2011 15:47 (thirteen years ago) link
^^^^
― I saw Mike Love walk by a computer once (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 21 September 2011 15:51 (thirteen years ago) link
Candle-lit vigil for Troy Davis, from 10pm, Wednesday 21 September, Embassy of the United States, 24 Grosvenor Square, London W1A 2LQ
― Juice Should Be Sterliized (Tom D.), Wednesday, 21 September 2011 15:54 (thirteen years ago) link
― forced to change display name (gbx), Wednesday, September 21, 2011 9:43 AM (4 hours ago) Bookmark
why? her opinion could potentially have a much stronger impact on anyone in control of this guy's fate than the hundreds of thousands of petition signatures and she doesn't seem to be remotely open to the possibility that she is advocating for the death of the wrong man. she is clearly stretching her own personal story (seriously, she was a BABY) in order to win points in the argument against troy davis. she has power in this situation, she could be extremely instrumental in trying to earn more time to find the truth rather than let another innocent person die, and she isn't having any of it. being a victim does not mean she gets a free pass to aid in the killing of a very-possibly-innocent person. and yeah, by going on television and crying her mascara off and making up shit is definitely her trying her damnedest to help the execution happen.
― witchho (zachlyon), Wednesday, 21 September 2011 18:19 (thirteen years ago) link
stfu
― smelly's wife (rustic italian flatbread), Wednesday, 21 September 2011 18:22 (thirteen years ago) link
yeah
― witchho (zachlyon), Wednesday, 21 September 2011 18:26 (thirteen years ago) link
I think you are projecting something fierce to say that she is "stretching her own personal story" and "making up shit" and you should stfu.
― smelly's wife (rustic italian flatbread), Wednesday, 21 September 2011 18:27 (thirteen years ago) link
I may or may not remember anything that happened when I was two (and, at best, those memories would just be blurs and colors). For her to claim some kind of strong "daddy's girl" bond with her father is bullshit. I know she grieves, and I know she's probably felt like there was something big missing from her life over the years, but for her to put some kind of false sense of "closure" ahead of legitimate questions about this man's conviction and death sentence is fucking gross.
― Johnny Fever, Wednesday, 21 September 2011 18:30 (thirteen years ago) link