Britain's youngest mother

Message Bookmarked

Bookmark Removed

Not all messages are displayed: show all messages (300 of them)

Haha, I love that I just wrote 'ciggies'!

― Mädchen (Madchen), Friday, 12 May 2006 12:31 (twenty years ago)

The age of consent in Finland is 16 too, but it doesn't apply to cases were both participants are under 16 (who would get charged then? both of them?). My whole point is, when it comes to teenagers there I don't think there can a simple rule when an age difference is big enough to consider un-forced sex as abuse (or rape), it needs to be judged case by case.

― Tuomas (Tuomas), Friday, 12 May 2006 12:43 (twenty years ago)

Oh, USA.-paws

― steal compass, drive north, disappear (tissp), Friday, 12 May 2006 12:46 (twenty years ago)

When I was 19 I started to date a girl who was 15 then. Theoretically, I could've been charged for abuse of a minor. Of course it's not the same as a 15-year old having sex with a 11-year old, but I think judging by numbers only isn't necessarily enough in cases like this.

― Tuomas (Tuomas), Friday, 12 May 2006 12:47 (twenty years ago)

The youngest mother on record, apparently, was a 5 year old Peruvian girl. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lina_Medina

― Cathy (Cathy), Friday, 12 May 2006 12:50 (twenty years ago)

yes, but at least she wasn't smoking 20 a day.

i'm sorry. i think i've offended even myself.

― grimly fiendish (grimlord), Friday, 12 May 2006 12:55 (twenty years ago)

Tuomas, what sort of attitudes did you encounter re dating a 15 yr old aged 19? was there any hostility or mockery? i guess only other guys around the same age would do this. at least i can imagine this happening in the UK but slightly different culture naturally.

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Friday, 12 May 2006 12:55 (twenty years ago)

She now takes part in an outreach programme, receiving lessons at a local community centre. But she admitted: “I know I’ll have to face school again eventually."

Weird thing is, she might still be in school when her child starts at infants.

― NickB (NickB), Friday, 12 May 2006 12:57 (twenty years ago)

i mean based on experiences of people i knew, the 15yr old girl would've actually got more 'respect' for dating someone that much older (4 years can often seem a much bigger gap than it really is) and possibly envy from friends. but the older guy could well have been teased (or worse) about it. but it was more common than people realised i think (guys found it easier to attract girls younger (more naive?) than them - girls often found guys their own age too 'immature' for them and sought older guys instead).

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Friday, 12 May 2006 13:00 (twenty years ago)

Sex Cauldron? I thought they closed that place down!

― Andrew (enneff), Friday, 12 May 2006 13:05 (twenty years ago)

"my girlfriend is fourteen years younger than me--back of the net!"

― RJG (RJG), Friday, 12 May 2006 13:05 (twenty years ago)

The age of consent here is 16.

As if any teenager gives a fuck what the legal age of consent is! Kids be fucking.

This is obviously a case of massively irresponsible parenting. That mother is a fucking disgrace. How anyone could allow an 11-year-old to smoke, let alone get drunk at parties unsupervised is beyond me.

― Andrew (enneff), Friday, 12 May 2006 13:07 (twenty years ago)

I didn't get any mockery or stuff like that - neither my friends nor hers didn't seem to think it was that weird (or at least they didn't say anything out loud), and even her mom seemed to accept it, despite me spending nights at their place. Of course I thought about it myself, since she was in the nineth grade and I was already out of school, but in the end I realized she wasn't that much less mature than I was, so I didn't feel like there was anything wrong with it.

― Tuomas (Tuomas), Friday, 12 May 2006 13:08 (twenty years ago)

That Lina Medina thing is fucking with my world right now.

― Allyzay Rofflesbot (allyzay), Friday, 12 May 2006 13:10 (twenty years ago)

Mine too.

― Alba (Alba), Friday, 12 May 2006 13:14 (twenty years ago)

She comes from a large family in West Lothian and has an eight-month-old brother who will become an UNCLE before he turns one.

I really love the completely unnecessary emphasis.

And is this part, slipped in as an afterthought at the end of the article:

Both were thought to be visiting the UK from Africa.

A sly anti-immigration jibe, or am I being paranoid?

― steal compass, drive north, disappear (tissp), Friday, 12 May 2006 13:14 (twenty years ago)

That Lina Medina thing is fucking with my world right now.

Yeah...

― The Mercury Krueger (Ex Leon), Friday, 12 May 2006 13:19 (twenty years ago)

When I was 16 I remember feeling resentful that lots of the best-looking girls were dating, like, 20-year olds who could drive and stuff. In fact, I am still resentful. What did they have that we didn't have? (other than cars. And clear skin. And life experience. And earning jobs. Ah, now I get it)

― Markelby (Mark C), Friday, 12 May 2006 13:20 (twenty years ago)

The bit I didn't like was the description of her "low cut vest top and tiny miniskirt", and then "she lives in a council flat" (quoting from memory, the page isn't working for me now).

x-post

― Cathy (Cathy), Friday, 12 May 2006 13:21 (twenty years ago)

It's payback time, Mark – start hanging around outside school gates.

― Alba (Alba), Friday, 12 May 2006 13:22 (twenty years ago)

and of course by the time i turned 20 the law changed and it was no longer possible for 16 yr old girls to date guys my age (that's what they told me anyway). what rotten luck!

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Friday, 12 May 2006 13:23 (twenty years ago)

start hanging around outside school gates.

"Your honour, it was all a misunderstanding. I was just trying to swap football stickers with the boys."

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Friday, 12 May 2006 13:24 (twenty years ago)

20 year olds have clear skin?

Tuomas in being a (legally defined) pedo shocka.

xpost: OK, what is a council flat and what are the connotations?

― JW (ex machina), Friday, 12 May 2006 13:24 (twenty years ago)

Who the hell wants to date younger girls anyway? I find the idea of dating a 16 year old fantastically boring. My girlfriend is eight years older than me, and it's awesome.

― Andrew (enneff), Friday, 12 May 2006 13:25 (twenty years ago)

"council flat" = "government housing" = "projects" = etc etc

― Andrew (enneff), Friday, 12 May 2006 13:26 (twenty years ago)

i dont think its about the witty, worldly conversation, andrew

― sunny successor (katharine), Friday, 12 May 2006 13:30 (twenty years ago)

Oh, is it about the awkward, uncomfortable sex with someone who has no idea what they want?

― Andrew (enneff), Friday, 12 May 2006 13:31 (twenty years ago)

Who the hell wants to date younger girls anyway? I find the idea of dating a 16 year old fantastically boring.

Monsieur Gainsbourg to thread

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Friday, 12 May 2006 13:32 (twenty years ago)

x-post
YES

― sunny successor (katharine), Friday, 12 May 2006 13:33 (twenty years ago)

Yeah, but Jane Birkin!!!

― Andrew (enneff), Friday, 12 May 2006 13:33 (twenty years ago)

My girlfriend is eight years older than me, and it's awesome.

Cashback!

― ken c (ken c), Friday, 12 May 2006 13:37 (twenty years ago)

Jane Birkin ran off with Serge, d'oh, and left a husband to do it. She came from a background where you go to posh parties for a few years with other posh people your age, until one your family likes asks you to marry him.

There are all kinds of sly, bigoted snideys all over the tabloid article. What annoys me the most is that this Voice Of The People, Innit? style is practiced almost exclusively by white middle class/public school arseholes writing for Mail-type tabloids, where a well-cast aspersion can earn you big bucks.

The case itself? Rape. And hey, people focus on the girl's mother but there are three others who haven't been in the firing line who are equally responsible - the other parents.

― suzy (suzy), Friday, 12 May 2006 13:46 (twenty years ago)

maybe you should ask your girlfriend what she gets out of dating someone eight years younger than her, andrew

― RJG (RJG), Friday, 12 May 2006 13:47 (twenty years ago)

Well, you know what they say about guys under 25...?

― Tuomas (Tuomas), Friday, 12 May 2006 13:49 (twenty years ago)

yes, rather horrible and sometimes unfair things

― RJG (RJG), Friday, 12 May 2006 13:50 (twenty years ago)

I believe I'm right in saying that 16 as the age of consent doesn't apply to boys in the UK, unless they are teh gay.

― Mädchen (Madchen), Friday, 12 May 2006 14:08 (twenty years ago)

No it does apply to boys, cos you get one of those cases every few years were some jammy bastard shags their teacher.

― Kenneth Anger Management (noodle vague), Friday, 12 May 2006 14:09 (twenty years ago)

The link on the methadone/birth control thread says hes been charged.

― Ed (dali), Friday, 12 May 2006 14:11 (twenty years ago)

I know a 22-year-old who hit puberty at age 5. Something like that will definitely fuck with your whole world.

― Tracey Hand (tracerhand), Friday, 12 May 2006 14:16 (twenty years ago)

if i'd hit puberty at 5 i would probably have wanted to be fucking with the whole world yeah

― ken c (ken c), Friday, 12 May 2006 14:17 (twenty years ago)

16 is age of consent for eveyone in England, Wales and Scotland, and if two 15-year-olds do each other nobody really minds that much — the 2003 (I think) Sexual Offences act has provisions for "mutually agreed" sex between kids of a similar age. However, kids under 13 are legally unable to consent to any form of sexual contact. If a man has sex with a 13-15 year old he can use the defence that he thought she was older, but that doesn't apply to 12s and under.

It's a teeny bit different in Scotland, as always, but essentially the "13 and up" rule still applies.

― Hello Sunshine (Hello Sunshine), Friday, 12 May 2006 14:17 (twenty years ago)

I swear I didn't even know what drugs were.

― Ned T.Rifle (nedtrifle), Friday, 12 May 2006 14:19 (twenty years ago)

Oh, and in Nornirelan the age of consent is 17 but you can get married at 16. Which is odd.

― Hello Sunshine (Hello Sunshine), Friday, 12 May 2006 14:19 (twenty years ago)

Yeah people are bitching about the girl's mother but, once again, where is the father?

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Friday, 12 May 2006 14:19 (twenty years ago)

LIST OF PEDOS:

MOMUS
TUOMAS

― JW (ex machina), Friday, 12 May 2006 14:32 (twenty years ago)

LUOMO

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Friday, 12 May 2006 14:33 (twenty years ago)

JW, you're saying my friend is a paedo WHY?

― suzy (suzy), Friday, 12 May 2006 14:40 (twenty years ago)

Momus?

― JW (ex machina), Friday, 12 May 2006 14:41 (twenty years ago)

c'mon suzy, calling people pedos on public message boards is totaly herlarious!

― Tracey Hand (tracerhand), Friday, 12 May 2006 14:42 (twenty years ago)

Currie made tabloid headlines for his 1994 marriage to 17-year-old Shazna Nessa, the daughter of a Bangladesh-born restauranteur. Currie and Nessa first met when she was just 14; after her parents learned of the relationship, she was sent back to Bangladesh to enter into an arranged marriage, but escaped to return to London to marry Currie, forcing the couple to go underground for fear that Nessa's family would kidnap her.

― JW (ex machina), Friday, 12 May 2006 14:45 (twenty years ago)

Skipping 200 messages at this point... Click here if you want to load them all.

The age of consent used to be 13 - it was changed in Victorian times I think to 16? I think you're right, ambrose - and if this girl is regularly surrounded by 13-15 year olds fucking and drinking, then there is absolutely no surprise that she sees it as aspirational. All she needs is to look a year or two older than her real age (we already know she can get pregnant so presumably she has some kind of secondary sexual characteristics) and I'm sure 15 year old boys aren't going to probe too deeply into her real age when to all intents and purposes she is the same as all those around her.

― Swiss Ra (Mark C), Monday, 15 May 2006 16:18 (twenty years ago)

Yes, it is wrong to have sex, be drunk, take drugs, get into fights, all at the age of 11. But im sure you stupid old men and women sitting at a computer doesnt help the situation. Im sure this 11 year old girl is not proud of herself for what she has done, and what more do you expect her mother to do? Her mother isnt exactly going to say that shes not proud of her daughter. If any of you are parents, you should be proud of your children no matter what. You lot are probaly making the girl feel insecure about herself, and worried about what other people may think. Give it a rest you stupid bunch of old fogies, do you get pleasure dissing people and saying they are common, drunken youths? Just because you used to go to things like Brownies and Guides at the age of 16, doesnt mean we have to. Yes, it is wrong to go out on the streets and get drunk, BUT IT IS THE 21ST CENTURY! I agree, she is too young, but I think she doesnt deserve all of these comments - shes pregnant, end of story. You making nasty comments and abusive feedback wont make the situation any better. YOU HAVE MY FULL SUPPORT, LOVE!!!

― Teenager (.:Teenager-Here:.), Tuesday, 16 May 2006 08:59 (twenty years ago)

You get chucked out of Brownies at the age of 10 and Guides at the age of 15 ACTUALLY.

― Mädchen (Madchen), Tuesday, 16 May 2006 09:09 (twenty years ago)

I advocate the culling of everyone involved.

― S- (sgh), Tuesday, 16 May 2006 09:17 (twenty years ago)

Im sure this 11 year old girl is not proud of herself for what she has done

hence why she's in the papers. yep, she seems extremely ashamed of her acts.

BUT IT IS THE 21ST CENTURY!

actually the 21st century is all about delayed adulthood.

― Nathalie (stevie nixed), Tuesday, 16 May 2006 09:25 (twenty years ago)

You can stay on in Guides til you're 26 though, if you really want to. According to Wikipedia, there are 50,000 people (boys are allowed too now) on the Guides waiting list. That surprises me more than anything on this thread, I think.

I like being called an old fogie.

― Cathy (Cathy), Tuesday, 16 May 2006 09:29 (twenty years ago)

I prefer fogey

― RJG (RJG), Tuesday, 16 May 2006 09:38 (twenty years ago)

You go into Senior Section between 14 and 15, Cathy.

― Mädchen (Madchen), Tuesday, 16 May 2006 09:41 (twenty years ago)

Anyway, obviously the answer is if she'd gone to Guides she wouldn't be up the duff.

― Mädchen (Madchen), Tuesday, 16 May 2006 09:45 (twenty years ago)

Pah, Senior Section. It's still Guides. I was just looking at the UK Guides website. There is still some wishy-washy C of E crap, but the religion part seems to have been pretty toned down. Now they are going go-kart racing and seeing Girls Aloud at Wembley stadium.

When I was in Brownies all we ever did was play traffic lights and try and steal the toy owl off the toadstool.

― Cathy (Cathy), Tuesday, 16 May 2006 09:47 (twenty years ago)

(boys are allowed too now)

crosspost

― RJG (RJG), Tuesday, 16 May 2006 09:48 (twenty years ago)

Personally, I'm depressed that anyone on this thread would casually think its fine to say "well I was drinking and smoking weed by 12 so whats the big deal" or similar. I am starting to wonder what kind of la la land I grew up in that I feel I was still pretty much a CHILD up until at least 14, and this is despite having a dad and family friends who drank and smoked heavily socially all my childhood.

Sure I'm a drinker now, but to hear people readily say "oh heaps of girls are preggers at school by 15" appalls me, really. I guess I have to accept I grew up in an environment that was fairly stable. Not wealthy though, I'll say that much.

Its funny though - once of a time, girls had children as soon as they were able, so we're talking 12-15 off they went. Child brides, arranged marriages, that sort of thing. What changed society to decide that was too young? We generally accept the body isnt ready for birth at that age but thats when one goes thru puberty. I am genuinely curious as to what brought that "gap" about - the teenage years.

― Trayce (trayce), Tuesday, 16 May 2006 09:49 (twenty years ago)

um, probably increases in life-expectancy and wealth and stuff

everyone is appalled w/ everyone else on this thread personally why should you be any different?

― RJG (RJG), Tuesday, 16 May 2006 09:53 (twenty years ago)

I think what may have changed society was the idea that women were more than wombs, and were entitled to equality with men under the law.

The modern 'teenager' is a product of embourgeoisement and child labour laws.

― suzy (suzy), Tuesday, 16 May 2006 09:55 (twenty years ago)

RJG: eh, by no means do I think I'm any different; if anything I imagine I'm weirder for being less exposed to this sort of thing. I dont hold it against anyone TBH.

― Trayce (trayce), Tuesday, 16 May 2006 09:56 (twenty years ago)

Suzy: yeah. I find the teenager concept interesting actually. I'd like to read up on it more.

― Trayce (trayce), Tuesday, 16 May 2006 09:57 (twenty years ago)

I wrote a dissertation on it but it's in a box somewhere hard to reach the now. The first 'teenager' film was The Bachelor and the Bobbysoxer.

― suzy (suzy), Tuesday, 16 May 2006 10:14 (twenty years ago)

"Beyonce"

I misremembered this, Demi was going to call it Beyonce but called it Aleesha instead. I think she still kept Beyonce for the middle name though.

― JTS (JTS), Wednesday, 17 May 2006 21:36 (twenty years ago)

yup. aleesha beyonce miller.

― lauren (laurenp), Thursday, 18 May 2006 00:31 (twenty years ago)

sixteen years pass...

Just a remarkable thread to read, 15+ years after.

Especially after the restrictions in abortions in America, but much else too. I think the ILE UK/US division in understanding of how the country 'works' generated a lot of the heat. The poor are still trapped and demonised though.

But I think of all this in terms of what would justice and community could look like as applied to this case. In another world (one which I think is possible) I think the mother -- who wanted to keep her child at a young age -- would be able to access child care and be able to live her life to study and work and provide, to do what she wanted. The state would rather demonise (with a willing press and public) than have conversations about what children experiment with and do.

Similarly the 15 year old man might not have his life ruined by what could be a mistake. Why go with prosecution at the first opportunity when a life of that girl might not be ruined (especially if she is provided for as I described?) I agree with some of the posts that talk of this time as one of experimentation with sex, identity and so on. I look at how children under 16 want to change or don't feel at ease in their body and want to do something about it as an example that is talked about a lot today.

― xyzzzz__, Thursday, 13 April 2023 10:38 (three years ago)

"Remarkable" is one way to put it!

― Daniel_Rf, Thursday, 13 April 2023 10:41 (three years ago)

That's right

― xyzzzz__, Thursday, 13 April 2023 10:42 (three years ago)

You must be logged in to post. Please either login here, or if you are not registered, you may register here.