Spielberg & Kushner's Munich '72 / Israeli vengeance film

hahah! spielberg is like the original shit-throwing monkey whose visual experience has been hardwired by bad TV!!

-- monkeybutler (pdenniso...), November 9th, 2005.

this is an excellent point.

I don't give a damn how ambitious Spielberg might have thought SPR was - in the end it was just a soothing version of standard war movie heroism lined with morally questionable choices to give it a veneer of 'adult' respectability.
-- Are You Nomar? (wooderso...), November 9th, 2005.

ah i see. how do you know when the morally questionable choices are applique or integral to the film? intuition?

the pacing/storytelling/imagery thing... in practice it's hard to tell these apart. even slow, non-narrative films have some kind of pace but then i can think of a fair number of films which have multiple rhythms and moods. 'last crusade' is all pace, all the way: it's almost a continuous chase. but sometimes an incredible shot has rhythm and drives the narrative: eg the amazing single take travelling shot in 'war of the worlds' (haha or 'touch of evil') which follows cruise's car down the motorway.

When they appear once per castmember and are never discussed again, and the whole movie is bookended with three and a half pounds of mild orange cheddar, those are pretty good indicators.

Which brings us back to a massive problem people have with Spielberg, minus all the discomforts we've discussed about his execution, he seems like he spends a lot of time stepping out on the cliff edge from which one descends into auteur-space, looking down, putting his hand out to show that he's totally going to do it, then turning around and using his complete control of the project to make sure it doesn't really offend or shock anybody over 7.

You almost get the feeling that after he made Jaws he realized that the super cheesy fake shark was exactly what he wanted all along, and used that as a guideline!

I meant 'PACING' with the quotes ... ie, "oh no, nothing's happening, the camera is static, a dialogue scene went on for more than 3 minutes, etc."

Forget I said anything as well. Ever. Let Frank & Hot Lips be your guides.

Yeah, but nobody you're discussing this with (yes, I am making the assumption I can speak for slocki and Alex on this one, knowing some of their other tastes in film) meant pacing in that fashion. I'm not really sure why you feel the need to be such a condescending prick on these threads so I'm going to take your advice and forget you've ever said anything.

And yeah, I think Tom basically hits it on the head, the potential for true greatness Spielberg has shown is what really creates the violent reaction towards him; it's kind of like no one gets really angry if they go to see a Michael Bay film and he pusses out on some BIG MEANINGFUL THING but with Spielberg it's kind of like, then why did you bother making this film? Why not keep doing what you excelled at, which is big blockbuster entertainment? He doesn't straddle the line very neatly at all. (and yeah, Enrique OTM in that he's not alone)

i dont mean to pick on this post because i think it's a good one. but one reason spielberg is such an interesting figure to debate is that it forces (or should force) the participants to ask themselves just what is so bad about a "happy" ending, or lack of ambiguity, or something that doesn't offend or shock anyone over 7. (all of these issues are pretty up front in the end of AI, i think).

why do we value these things in storytelling or filmmaking? what makes them better? (because they better correspond to "reality"? is that really valid?)

anyway, just some stupid thoughts

SPOILER ALERT

Though I thought the part where Eric Bana turned green and started throwing Palestinian tanks around was a little much.

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1137684,00.html

3.2

"Really, much like Match Point and Woody Allen, you would not know this was a Steven Spielberg movie if you didn't see his name on it. He really gives up his style crutches for the cleanest telling of this story. And as a result, it really has the feeling of early 70s film, particularly The Conversation, The Day of the Jackal, and even a bit of The Godfather."

http://www.thehotbutton.com/today/hot.button/2005_thb/051206_tue.html

I think the Toms issue is a major factor for me as well. More loathesome actors surely don't exist?

AND THEY'RE NOT IN THIS

However, OTM about Patricia Arquette.

http://daily.greencine.com/archives/001430.html

His second film of the year with not-so-oblique 9/11 associations.

1. King David Hotel: The bombing of the King David Hotel, which served as headquarters of the British administration in Palestine, killed 91 Arabs, Jews, and Brits in 1946. Two future Prime Ministers of Israel, David Ben Gurion and Menachem Begin, masterminded the attack. Disguised as Arabs, members of Begin's Irgun placed 350kg of explosives inside the building. In this action-packed thriller, David (Pierce Brosnan) — a British officer ordered to hunt down the killers — falls for Margaret (Uma Thurman), an American journalist working for Life Magazine. But is Margaret really in love or is she a secret Zionist assassin out to stop David in his tracks?

2. Nakba: A story of innocent love in a time of war and tragedy. Layla (Penelope Cruz) & Salam (Orlando Bloom) are a Romeo & Juliet against the backdrop of the 1948 Nakba, the Palestinian national catastrophe. During the Nakba, over 700,000 Palestinians fled — voluntarily & involuntarily — their homes. Can their love survive conflict?

3. USS Liberty: When Israeli boats and fighter jets attack the US Navy intelligence ship USS Liberty in the middle of the 1967 Six Day War, 34 US servicemen are killed and 173 are wounded. The official word from Washington and Tel Aviv is that the attack was a mistake. But Brad Pitt & Tom Cruise, who play surviving officers from the Liberty, swear vengeance after discovering that the attack was actually part of a plot to start World War III.

4. Sabra & Shatila: It's 1982 and the war in Lebanon rages on. British war correspondent Robert Fisk (Star Wars star Ewan MacGregor) hides in the camps of Sabra & Shatilla, while a Lebanese militia aided and abetted by Israel slaughters thousands of Palestinian refugees. Sahar (Sandra Bullock) is a Palestinian mother determined to protect her family at any cost.

5. Vanunu: A political thriller set in Israel, Australia, Thailand, England, and Italy. "Syriana" star George Clooney plays Mordechai Vanunu, the nuclear technician who exposes Israel's nuclear weapons program and pays the ultimate price. Nicole Kidman plays Cheryl Bentov, the American Mossad agent who seduces and kidnaps him.

6. Hebron: A story of tragedy and torn loyalties. In 1994, Brooklyn Jewish doctor Baruch Goldstein opened fire on Muslim worshippers in Hebron, killing 29. Palestinian American Mazen Khalili (Tom Hanks), a State Department official assigned to investigate the massacre, struggles with his job responsibilities and his roots. Leah Rabinowitz (Meg Ryan) is a Jewish American journalist who discovers a dark family secret that will change her life forever.

7. Qana: On April 18, 1996, Israeli shelling of a UN Compound that shelters Lebanese refugees kills more than 100 & injures over 300 men, women, and children. Jessica (Angelina Jolie) is a UN worker determined to let the world know what happened after witnessing the atrocity. Yossi (Robert De Niro) is a Mossad agent assigned to kill Jolie.

8. Gaza: Chris Hedges (Harrison Ford), a New York Times correspondent in Jerusalem, files stories from his hotel room. Hedges reaches a turning point when he witnesses Israeli soldiers killing young Palestinian boys for sport, then defies his editors by writing stories that humanize Palestinians. David Schwimmer & Sarah Jessica Parker make cameo appearances as the parents of Muhammad al-Durra, the 12 year old Palestinian boy killed by Israeli troops in 2000.

9. Rachel: Rachel Corrie (Gwyneth Paltrow) is the idealistic young American activist crushed to death by the Israeli army with a Caterpillar bulldozer. Sally Field, well-known for her role in "Not Without My Daughter", plays Rachel's mother.

10. Refuseniks: When a fellow soldier commits suicide after killing an unarmed pregnant Palestinian woman (played by Natalie Portman) in cold blood, two young Israeli soldiers (Matt Damon and Ben Affleck) decide that the occupation and the killing of Palestinians is immoral and unjust.

Out of curiosity, who would that include?

This is not shocking (nothing indicated that this movie was going to be a sop to the Israeli ultra-right.)