keynes thought by 2030 we'd be working 15h weeks and mostly just trying to figure out what we'd do with our free time
(he did not envision ilx polls)
― iatee, Monday, 5 September 2011 01:23 (twelve years ago) link
I'm not sure what I think re paying people to not work but I think I'm committed to the "dignity of labor" both as in "don't make work so shitty that it offends against human dignity" (that's an injunction to the ruling class) & as in "work is a basic human good, it gives meaning & purpose & direction to human life" but re the latter I have a pretty broad understanding of work e.g. building ridic Minecraft worlds might count, so I dunno.
― Euler, Monday, 5 September 2011 01:49 (twelve years ago) link
virtual WPA hmm
― remy bean, Monday, 5 September 2011 01:51 (twelve years ago) link
I think 'paying people not to work' is not the right phrasing - 'paying people subsistence wages when the demand for more labor simply doesn't exist'. this isn't some crazy futurist idea either, already happens in countries w/ considerably less wealth than america.
― iatee, Monday, 5 September 2011 01:54 (twelve years ago) link
yeah I think the right phrase might be "guaranteed minimum income", there might be some econ/poli sci term of art that gets used I dunno.
'In Praise of Idleness', Bertrand Russell takes on the supposed nobility of work
― Do not go gentle into that good frogbs (silby), Monday, 5 September 2011 01:57 (twelve years ago) link
though as someone said upthread unlimited unemployment insurance is a lot easier to implement than some sort of universal free money program
― Do not go gentle into that good frogbs (silby), Monday, 5 September 2011 01:59 (twelve years ago) link
15hr working week, another 15hrs spent studying to keep colleges open
― even blue cows get the girls (darraghmac), Monday, 5 September 2011 02:00 (twelve years ago) link
Money quote:
First of all: what is work? Work is of two kinds: first, altering the position of matter at or near the earth's surface relatively to other such matter; second, telling other people to do so. The first kind is unpleasant and ill paid; the second is pleasant and highly paid. The second kind is capable of indefinite extension: there are not only those who give orders, but those who give advice as to what orders should be given. Usually two opposite kinds of advice are given simultaneously by two organized bodies of men; this is called politics.
― Do not go gentle into that good frogbs (silby), Monday, 5 September 2011 02:02 (twelve years ago) link
The morality of work is the morality of slaves, and the modern world has no need of slavery.
― Do not go gentle into that good frogbs (silby), Monday, 5 September 2011 02:04 (twelve years ago) link
ok so I'm obvs just posting the good-sounding rhetorical bits here but still
― Do not go gentle into that good frogbs (silby), Monday, 5 September 2011 02:05 (twelve years ago) link
yeah I know the Russell essay, but I don't trust him on this: he only knew idleness when depressed, & he was an aristocrat.
― Euler, Monday, 5 September 2011 02:06 (twelve years ago) link
he was an aristocrat and therefore…his opinion is invalid or…?
― Do not go gentle into that good frogbs (silby), Monday, 5 September 2011 02:10 (twelve years ago) link
well there's also something to say about idleness in the white collar 40h week
― iatee, Monday, 5 September 2011 02:10 (twelve years ago) link
see: ilx.com
― iatee, Monday, 5 September 2011 02:11 (twelve years ago) link
xp do you mean since he personally never put in 12-hour days at the sadness cannery in Manchester or something he couldn't know how rewarding that really was?
― Do not go gentle into that good frogbs (silby), Monday, 5 September 2011 02:12 (twelve years ago) link
iatee ilx.com isn't loading for me ???
haha ilxor.com
― iatee, Monday, 5 September 2011 02:13 (twelve years ago) link
I like how we have this overarching narrative about the american love of labor but at the same time we also believe that a significant % of americans are looking for an excuse to live the rest of their lives under the poverty line as welfare dependents
― iatee, Monday, 5 September 2011 03:01 (twelve years ago) link
yup. then again i believe that the 'overarching narrative' is most often associated with one particular ethnicity of americans, while the 'significant %' are associated with other ethnicities. damn cynicism..
― pearsonic, Monday, 5 September 2011 03:03 (twelve years ago) link
pearsockic
― buzza, Monday, 5 September 2011 03:12 (twelve years ago) link
that there's really only two posters on ilx, velko and a sockmaster supreme
― harshbuzz to my chilt-on (zvookster), Wednesday, March 24, 2010 2:12 PM
― markers, Monday, 5 September 2011 03:16 (twelve years ago) link
zvookster would know about that : )
― buzza, Monday, 5 September 2011 03:17 (twelve years ago) link
pearsonic isn't a sock
― remy bean, Monday, 5 September 2011 03:19 (twelve years ago) link
you guys all laughed at my farm camp idea and now youve all come back around
― max, Monday, 5 September 2011 12:20 (twelve years ago) link
marx thought that once we overcame capitalism wed all go hunting a lot
― max, Monday, 5 September 2011 12:21 (twelve years ago) link
dude was really into hunting, go figure
i'm not laughing at the idea - i actually think that a civilian corp (a year of military or non-military service, optionally) as prerequisite for no-strings-attached two years of college funding is a semi-brilliant idea.
― remy bean, Monday, 5 September 2011 12:35 (twelve years ago) link
nah silby re. Russell all I was saying was that as an aristocrat he knew a different kind of idleness from the laborer: it wasn't simply a way to rest his feet & turn his mind off, as laborers do, but rather a way to let his mind free.
― Euler, Monday, 5 September 2011 15:44 (twelve years ago) link
even poor people have the internet now
― iatee, Monday, 5 September 2011 15:46 (twelve years ago) link
facebook: the great equalizer
― iatee, Monday, 5 September 2011 15:47 (twelve years ago) link
farmville: the great unequalizer
― Euler, Monday, 5 September 2011 15:50 (twelve years ago) link
haha touche
― iatee, Monday, 5 September 2011 15:51 (twelve years ago) link
allow me to raise the discourse: shit sux.
― Nhex, Monday, 5 September 2011 17:36 (twelve years ago) link
I'm liking this Bertrand Russell essay, though
― Nhex, Monday, 5 September 2011 17:39 (twelve years ago) link
http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2011/09/profiles-of-the-jobless-the-mad-as-hell-millennial-generation/244552/http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2011/09/profiles-of-unemployment-what-its-like-to-be-jobless-in-your-20s/244448/
― iatee, Monday, 5 September 2011 21:42 (twelve years ago) link
just user emails nothing super enlightening
but I like the boomers/gen x/gen y narrative, we haven't talked much about that
― iatee, Monday, 5 September 2011 21:43 (twelve years ago) link
I can linkspam my own thread right
http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2011/09/05/rick-perrys-plan-10000-for-a-ba/perrys-college-plan-its-just-a-start
mostly just college profs defending the status quo
― iatee, Monday, 5 September 2011 22:46 (twelve years ago) link
$10,000 for a bachelor's degree? Let's start by firing all the administration!
― Euler, Monday, 5 September 2011 22:59 (twelve years ago) link
otm
― iatee, Monday, 5 September 2011 22:59 (twelve years ago) link
haha I mean but you should see the admin levels in your av research uni, & most of it is aimed at nothing more than making more money---it's like the platonic ideal of Weber
― Euler, Tuesday, 6 September 2011 00:45 (twelve years ago) link
http://socrates.berkeley.edu/~schwrtz/Part_12.html
http://universityprobe.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/Untitled-1024x700.jpghttp://universityprobe.org/2011/03/new-data-on-management-growth-at-uc/
this crazy old physics prof has written a lot of good stuff over the years w/r/t the UC system financing and costs: http://socrates.berkeley.edu/~schwrtz/
― iatee, Tuesday, 6 September 2011 00:59 (twelve years ago) link
esp: http://socrates.berkeley.edu/~schwrtz/UndergradCost.html
― iatee, Tuesday, 6 September 2011 01:01 (twelve years ago) link
admin cash is pretty sweet too
― Euler, Tuesday, 6 September 2011 01:14 (twelve years ago) link
As an administrator at my research university, the disparity between administrators who reward themselves with golden parachutes into the millions and the rest of us reeling under salary freezes and the governor's forcing us to contribute three percent of our salaries towards retirement is -- well.
― Anakin Ska Walker (AKA Skarth Vader) (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 6 September 2011 01:20 (twelve years ago) link
dangling modifier but you get it
that said, would your job even exist 30 years ago?
― iatee, Tuesday, 6 September 2011 01:36 (twelve years ago) link
sure -- I'm the adviser to the student newspaper, website, and radio station.
― Anakin Ska Walker (AKA Skarth Vader) (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 6 September 2011 01:37 (twelve years ago) link
I'm thinking of your assistant dean of undergraduate science research & the like.
― Euler, Tuesday, 6 September 2011 01:46 (twelve years ago) link
were there really full-time people working for the student newspaper and radio station in 1980? (I genuinely have no idea, but surely there are some people who went to college in 1980 here?)
― iatee, Tuesday, 6 September 2011 01:57 (twelve years ago) link
If there are good jobs, won't people train to fill them? The vocational part of a college education should be easy, but there is a lot about working that cannot be taught. I think a college education is more about quality of life, quality of existence, of which working is eventually a significant part, for most people.
― youn, Tuesday, 6 September 2011 02:26 (twelve years ago) link