Capital Punishment: Should the Death Penalty Still Exist In A 'Civilised Society'?

xp well yeah!

dmac are you a conservative? i don't mean the question in a nasty way but i don't read the UK/irish politics threads

Just branched out from a thing with tom about ilx being v left/liberal as a whole, hardly controversial nor a major point rly. Specifically relating to whether someone 'can' deserve the death penalty, iirc.

Not really, you said there was a large disconnect between ILX's views on the death penalty and the mythical man on the street, and I was saying there isn't really because a lot of "men in the street" share those views

The "large" bit I was disputing... i've gone all Yoda

no he's right actually ilx's views on these issues are significantly to the left of joe six-pack, i mean some joe six-packs are abolitionists too but not many, is the point.

and i pointed out that there was prob x percent of that 44% that wouldn't maybe hold to the specific question as opposed to being against the death penalty for all the reasons one could give. For instance, i'd be against it in any case where there's any doubt, which in the real world is probably close to 100%

Kev- i dunno, i'm rural irish. i vote left, wish the party i voted for was further left tbh, but on 'social issues' and on ilx i tend to argue to the right on things like this.

xp: And some leftists are pro-death penalty!

or at least "pro-retributive punishment".

The man in the street with the pint of Harp in North Korea for instance

have u met the man on the street and is it true he's a fucking cunt?

he's the reason we can't kick a ball there anymore

I can kick a ball in my street because I live in the suburbs.

he's ok but i mean don't ask him about shit like this i guess?

the mythical man in the street is becoming disenchanted

over the price of harp i'd say

A harp and hanging, that's what the man in the street loves

and a monkey to hang

28% in ireland wanted the possibility of the death penalty according to that opinion poll, so it's almost as unpopular in the street as, well, harp.

The possibility of a harp never goes out of fashion tho

who even drinks harp, can't be near 28%

if i walk into a bar and all they have is Harp, i will take it sans complaint.
if i walk into a bar and all they have is death penalty, i will be going home thank you.

if i walk into a bar and all they have is harp then some fucker would want to be getting the death penalty

don't forget "why should we THE TAXPAYERS keep shelling out to keep these people alive"
― lex pretend, Thursday, 22 September 2011 12:58 (29 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

haha that's pretty much ron paul's position

but applied to everyone, not just murderers

don't forget "why should we THE TAXPAYERS keep shelling out to keep these people alive"
― lex pretend, Thursday, 22 September 2011 12:58 (29 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

haha that's pretty much ron paul's position

FACT: it costs more for the state to execute a person than it does to house them for life in prison

i think amateurist is confusing the death penalty with health care

it wouldn't if Ron Paul were in charge xp

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DAXAsg4RvdI

wait were people before saying obama should've pardoned davis or did i just read through this too quickly. POTUS can only pardon federal crimes etc

don't forget "why should we THE TAXPAYERS keep shelling out to keep these people alive"

You can pay less and have a justice system that's fair or you can go broke and indulge in Old Testament bloodlust. Pick one.

why don't we just make speeding a capital offense

illegal parking, too

and jaywalking

hell, any lawbreaking should carry death as a potential punishment

And the punishment should be random, so you never know when that jaywalking could get you the needle.

what if the punishment was....jaywalking

don't forget "why should we THE TAXPAYERS keep shelling out to keep these people alive"
― lex pretend, Thursday, 22 September 2011 12:58 (29 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

haha that's pretty much ron paul's position

while this does sound like the cartoon 'ron paul' position, according to google ron paul actually opposes the death penalty.

why don't we just make speeding a capital offense
--the tax avocado (DJP)

finally some real talk itt

i heard jeffrey toobin on cnn yesterday say that it is untrue that more black people than white people get sentenced to death, but it is true that people who kill white people are more often sentenced to death than people who kill black people are, and black people who kill white people get sentenced to death most of all.

even if there weren't any other grounds for banning the death penalty that should be enough, it is sickeningly inequitable.

That argument won't cause supporters to recant their positions though. What might is a restatement of facts. This is one of the few fact-based arguments which stands a chance at working: the sheer number of cases in which jury members recanted or evidence appeared of procedural mistakes. As long as reasonable doubt exists as a principle of our jurisprudence, this may work.

After all, it worked on me. I supported the death penalty until ten years ago.

agreed. i'm not philosophically against the death-penalty, but i don't think it can be administered justly.

given America's history (& in particular of the American south), that "sickening inequity" is precisely why the death penalty remains popular.

yep

i think amateurist is confusing the death penalty with health care
― zvookster, Thursday, September 22, 2011 11:56 AM (8 hours ago) Bookmark

that was the joke

In my experience you'll get nowhere saying, "But blacks suffer disproportionately!" Listeners will reply, "Well, so? They commit more crime!"

well yeah and you're just never going to get anywhere with those idiots, unfortunately, not today, not in 30 years - the death penalty shouldn't be a democratic issue in the first place but the only way you're ever gonna make a dent, terrible to say, is to have high-profile tragedies like this and have the media do their best to help. ideally you'd remove the democracy entirely - in the US via the supreme court or like with europe and the EU

many governments seem to have lost the knack for not letting bigots dictate things.

http://www.cnn.com/2011/09/22/justice/texas-last-meal/index.html

"It is extremely inappropriate to give a person sentenced to death such a privilege. One which the perpetrator did not provide to their victim," Whitmire wrote.

lol

i'm sure out of everyone texas executes in a year, one of them probably did give their victim/s a last meal, just statistically speaking

but for real fuck texas

"It is extremely inappropriate to give a person sentenced to death such a privilege. One which the perpetrator did not provide to their victim," Whitmire wrote.

lol

― witchho (zachlyon), Thursday, September 22, 2011 11:10 PM (17 minutes ago) Bookmark

but what about that movie hannibal amirite?

What then is capital punishment but the most premeditated of murders, to which no criminal's deed, however calculated it may be, can be compared? For there to be an equivalence, the death penalty would have to punish a criminal, who had warned his victim of the date at which he would inflict a horrible death on him, and who from that moment onward had confined him at his mercy for months. Such a monster is not encountered in private life.

this camus quote was bouncing around amid the tray davis discussion & seems a more valuable lens through which to look at the death penalty than OMG A LAST MEAL