rolling china thread 2011

reading it in a global sense i.e. people overlook the pervasiveness of social networks and just <3 everything

http://lawprofessors.typepad.com/china_law_prof_blog/2011/10/more-on-proposed-revisions-to-chinas-criminal-procedure-law.html

more analysis of the revisions to the criminal code

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/10/business/global/households-pay-a-price-for-chinas-growth.html?pagewanted=all

I don't understand finance at all but I can understand the general gist of the article - you can see the relationship to the wenzhou crisis

i hate to say that, actually, but my reaction is like... yeah, okay, six year old kid detained... who gives a fuck? who gives a shit about liu xiaobo????? i am open to being convinced that guys like this matter but i feel like they're so irrelevant to the realities of "life on the ground" (1) because teh government marginalizes them obv 2) because their interests are........) and we'd be better off if we kept our eyes on stuff like wenzhou's private lending meltdown or the hukou system or WHATEVER, shit that is actually fucking up millions of lives. it's just a reality that china produces cranks and lunatics and not credible figures of opposition. i take liu xiaobo a bit more seriously than i take li hongzhi.

― dylannn, Sunday, October 9, 2011 10:45 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark

I dunno dude, it's not really what liu xiaobo and ai weiwei are saying, it's more what they stand for - an alternative voice to the state. you can call them cranks, yeah, but if that's all they are then why the detentions, prison sentences? why the harassment and virtual imprisonment of their relatives and friends? you can measure china's progress in a lot of ways, some of which will exceed the metrics, but if you measure it in the way it responds to dissent, the CCP is still an autocratic and downright fascist government.

I feel you man - there's a lot of heinous shit going down in China atm, internal politics that nobody outside will ever give more than two shits about. but China wants to perform on the world stage too - and it needs to accept all the responsibilities that that entails. which means not doing shit like petulantly locking up a six year old just because the international community decided to honor her father.

I'm happy that china is pulling itself up by the bootstraps, and I'm happy that so many more people are being pushed into a better way of living, some perhaps screaming and kicking, and all on the backs of hundreds of millions of farmers (really, the number one sob story in china) and raping its own land. china has a right to feel proud - but there's no reason for that to turn into an unhealthy and ultimately damaging jingoism.

i've been thinking about this and a friend recently told me how when she was in hong kong she was following the ai weiwei story and when she came back home, she was completely out of the loop, wanted to know how it all worked out for him, and it kind of PUT THINGS IN PERSPECTIVE...

you're right on with the question of why the imprisonment and the harassment. "CCP is still an autocratic and downright fascist government"-- this is true. even if i'm skeptical about ai weiwei, his opponents are so fucking grimy that i can't help but root for him.

i don't know what to think.

i'm in china btw

oh sweet, in dalian?

idk whenever i talk about ai wei wei with my family, they just parrot these character-assassination points - how he's so ugly! his art is no good! so who cares if he gets put on lockdown? which is besides the point. because you can take ai wei wei and replace him with, oh, let's say chen guangxin - which the media/the_west has been doing these past few days - and it puts into relief how insidious this all is.

I 'get it' that China has a ton of problems facing it right now, some much larger than others, but that's not an excuse to justify these 'smaller'* transgressions against civil liberties!

*to even accept that these transgressions are 'smaller' is to accept the framing of the CCP - these acts are complete bullshit, full stop!

link 4 u AA: http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2011/09/in-africa-an-election-reveals-skepticism-of-chinese-involvement/245832/

fucked up, considering this is a national newspaper (i.e. if they deign to publish this, then things must be really bad!): http://www.globaltimes.cn/NEWS/tabid/99/ID/678355/Beatings-more-usual-than-bonuses-for-Chinese-women.aspx

yep dalian. is there anyone else on ilxxx in p.r.china?

the domestic abuse thing has been getting a lot of burn, common discussion topic on fm radio call-in shows, weibo, etc. and it's probably a good start. the statistic about rural women killing themselves is.......

Cheers for the links dayo. The Zambia thing is particularly interesting in that (a) they're new to properly democratic elections and (b) ~things~ were on the improve under Banda, largely due to his dealings with China (but also in gaining the tourism that Zimbabwe has lost). When I was there last year (albeit in tourist bubbles) there was a distinct buzz of optimism, getting things done etc. Reading further into it though, it's clear that Zambians were worried that their already high jobless rate would suffer under the growing influx of Chinese nationals, not to mention the mine violence etc. Sata's pre-election response involved (a) being heavily antagonistic toward China and (b) promising to p much move Zambia 6km to the right within 90 days of winning the election.

There's tension further south as well, with the Dalai Lama not getting a visa to visit Desmond Tutu for his 80th birthday because the Sth African govt fartarsed around until he cancelled his trip, all the while denying that it was kowtowing to China. All this pro-China sentiment among govts on the continent is really starting to backfire.

btw my interest in Chinese affairs has risen sharply in recent weeks because we're giving serious thought to working in zh/tw/hk for a few months/years.

I didn't post about it because it was all over the (western) news but the two year old toddler died :( :( :(

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/22/world/asia/chinese-toddler-who-was-run-over-twice-dies.html

poor little poppet, the video is the most disturbing footage of anything I've ever seen. haunting and hideous.

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english2010/china/2011-10/19/c_131200476.htm

part of the great wall is collapsing due to mining hollowing out the ground underneath it

http://www.chinadialogue.net/article/show/single/en/4418

bohai oil spill - hadn't heard about this before. good job, chinese media!

http://lawprofessors.typepad.com/china_law_prof_blog/2011/10/the-most-dangerous-man-in-china.html

good overview of the level of security detail around chen guangcheng

btw the old lady who saved the 2 year old toddler is being accused that she only did so to become famous

"A lot of people are now saying that I'm doing it to get famous, and to get money. Even my neighbours are now saying so!" she said. "That really wasn't my intention, and I'm so afraid of hearing what people are saying that I don't dare to watch the news. I'm not out for fame or money."

http://bbs.ifeng.com/viewthread.php?tid=4109251

prison built for officials convicted of corruption

http://i.imgur.com/A3xmE.jpg

looks like it was built by Marriott

what a cruel fate for those officials

so common & vulgar

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/23/books/review/deng-xiaoping-and-the-transformation-of-china-by-ezra-f-vogel-book-review.html?pagewanted=all

pretty good 5 minute overview of deng

I know people who love to point out deng as the true savior of china and not mao but guess what dengs hands are dirty too

what do ilx china hedz think of peter hessler

the dude who won the macarthur? I read an interview with him in chinese once and he seemed to have insights but I haven't checked out his books

he's moved on to other topics now hasn't he?

yeah but he has 3 books on china that a friend recommended

he was the nyer china correspondent for years, i remember digging his pieces, but i thought maybe hes just an orientalist like the rest of them

you should probably read them then

thx for the advice <thumbs up>

glad I could help ;)

http://www.globaltimes.cn/NEWS/tabid/99/ID/680047/Condom-app-lifts-off.aspx

condoms @ your door

i like peter hessler a lot

first book about teaching in really remote sichuan is enjoyable
oracle bones is the most impressive

tumblr, twitter, facebook, blogger, wordpress... give them back to me

just ordered river town, ill do oracle bones next

river town is the best in the little microgenre of MAN SPENDS YEAR IN CHINA books, i think.

others that aren't terrible: iron and silk by mark salzman (it's okay), the last days of old beijing by michael meyer (good)...

i read iron and silk a long time ago and thought it was funny but dont remember it very well

i guess zachary mexico's china underground fits into the category, too: pseudonymous kid hangs out in shanghai with uighur stoners and other zany characters.

you had your own thread of wild china travelogue writing too didn't you?

i don't recommend that

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/25/world/asia/attempted-visits-to-chen-guang

lol, fair enuff

from what I can tell there is actually a grassroots movement inside China to visit chen guangzheng, pretty cool, you can't throw them all in jail huh

according to my mom xi jinping is more reform minded and will hopefully curb some of the excesses when he takes the stage

http://the-diplomat.com/china-power/2010/10/20/who-is-xi-jinping/

not too particularly promising

but wikileaks cables say he really loved 'saving private ryan'

http://behindthewall.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/10/25/8476025-china-cracks-down-on-economic-leaks

good overview of what constitutes a state secret other than keeping dead hookers in your basement

re: the chinese toddler

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/04/24/hugo-alfredo-tale-yax-doz_n_550854.html

According to the Financial Times’ Geoff Dyer, Xi is also sympathetic to pro-market reforms. Writing in the FT on Monday, Dyer said:

‘He is the son of…an important ally of Deng Xiaoping in the introduction of market reforms in China in the 1980s (and) spent much of his career in some of the export strongholds of the Chinese economy.

‘As a result, many see him as a natural supporter of continued economic reform. (Hank Paulson, the former US treasury secretary, famously once called him “the kind of guy who knows how to get things over the goal line.”)’

what is meant by "pro-market reforms," exactly?

letting the wealth gap increase at a rate never before seen, obviously

that sucks.

actually, is that all it means?

i wish i knew more about the chinese economy, so i could wrap my head around this. what further pro-market reforms are on the horizon in china? maybe he's talking about less topdown control of the economy or something. or maybe it does just mean letting the wealth gap increase at a rate never seen before.

when it comes to market reforms, i mostly hear a lot of "more of the same": building domestic demand, building the middle class. people talk about guys like bo xilai being liberal or whatever, but i can't quite figure out what it means in real terms. i don't know anything.

yeah I was being facetious. I guess the thinking is that since xi jinping's father was such a revolutionary hero, was imprisoned for 16 years during the cultural revolution, etc. and that xi jinping seems to have wholeheartedly bought the narrative of the people, that means he will be more of a reformer and institute policies more favorable to the middle class and to rural farmers and migrant workers.

or 'pro-market' could mean he favors a reagonomics approach, that a rising tide floats all boats and we'll let capitalism continue unfettered and even supported by the state's money, and migrant workers will eventually be able to purchase toothpaste at regular intervals.

*shrug*

I suppose this was going to happen eventually

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/oct/26/china-social-media-censorship?CMP=twt_gu

Analysts believe that officials will not shut down social media sites because they are simply too popular, and closing them would create a backlash. Chinese authorities have sought to use social media proactively, launching their own accounts.

Instead, they are likely to step up pressure on the operators, who have large in-house teams of staff to monitor, block and remove sensitive content.

"The more important risk we see for Sina Weibo and other (microblogs) is that they self-regulate out of business (interests) … and that they self-neuter and that makes the platform so boring no one wants to use it," said Michael Clendenin, managing director of RedTech Advisors, a research company.

http://www.echinacities.com/dalian/city-in-pulse/dalian-to-build-china-s-first-floating-city-in-2014.html

jealous?