TBF my one pair of jeans is in fact Uniqlo. It actually seems pretty well made to me, idk. Sometimes you can tell, or at least you know something from prior purchases. I wear dress shirts every day to work, and I know from experience, for example, that if you wait for the big winter sale, Brooks Brothers no-iron shirts are absolutely worth the premium you pay over your standard department store shirt, because they stay fresh looking for much longer, retain their shape, etc. That's not really the kind of "craftsmanship" discussed in the thread title exactly -- I'm sure they're made in some chinese factory but just with better materials, better design, more stitching and maybe better trained workers.
― pass the duchy pon the left hand side (musical duke) (Hurting 2), Friday, 4 November 2011 11:40 (twelve years ago) link
darragh raises a decent point -- how can a consumer actually make an independent assessment as to a product's quality? and i don't think we can easily equate quality with durability. the infamous fancy axes are a good illustration of this. how can you tell whether those luxury tools are more or less durable or practical than their mass-produced equivalent? i don't know if you can! what i'm getting at, is that I think judging an object's 'quality' is a highly aesthetic evaluation.
― elmo argonaut, Friday, 4 November 2011 11:44 (twelve years ago) link
TBF my one pair of jeans is in fact Uniqlo. It actually seems pretty well made to me, idk.
assembled in China of Japanese denim and Chinese sundries fwiw.
― citation needed (Steve Shasta), Friday, 4 November 2011 11:45 (twelve years ago) link
those axes will no doubt remain in excellent condition for a very long time! but just because they will rarely be put to use, not because of their inherent 'quality'
― elmo argonaut, Friday, 4 November 2011 11:51 (twelve years ago) link
Gommorrah (the book) actually talks about how the Chinese textile industry is increasingly learning how to make things really well
― pass the duchy pon the left hand side (musical duke) (Hurting 2), Friday, 4 November 2011 11:56 (twelve years ago) link
sure - you can't put all that IP in the country and not expect them to copy it or reverse-engineer it!
― ASPIE Rocky (dayo), Friday, 4 November 2011 12:03 (twelve years ago) link
Guys this is a great thread but I want you all to watch this for a few minutes:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CfN4_52loC4
― TracerHandVEVO (Tracer Hand), Friday, 4 November 2011 12:05 (twelve years ago) link
this is really easy to run into if you buy liquor these days--microdistilleries are popping up all over the place and using words like "local" "artisinal" and "craft" and they pretty much ignore some basic facts of the beverage alcohol industry (liquor branch in particular), such as 1) distilling is really hard; 2) once you can do it it's really easy to do large-scale; 3) market competition and consumer choice have resulted in an environment where 95% of midshelf and higher products are quite high-quality.
I think the term "local" stands a bit apart from "artisinal" and "craft". The latter two terms can sometimes just be clever marketing, or a misleading implication of quality, but if we're talking about a locally distilled product made with locally-sourced ingredients, that's a bit different. Some people are happy to pay a bit more for something if they're supporting a local business. I think the increased interest in supporting small/local/craft businesses is partly due to a desire to live in a more self-sustaining, neighborhood sort of economy, where we can grow and make and buy a lot of the things we need/want without the raw ingredients, processed components, and finished products having to be shipped halfway across the world three different times.
And if you buy that locally distilled liquor, you're probably supporting several local businesses, not just one. There's the distiller, the farmer, the maltster, the barrelmaker, the local shops that proudly carry the local product- I could go on and on. These community businesses all depend on each other, (hopefully) treat each other well, and share in the rewards of the enterprise.
And then of course there's the idea that you're giving your money to a known entity, a person, and not some shadowy corporation using unfair business practices, and paying their employees the bare minimum, and making horrific political contributions, etc. This is of course a sweeping generalization but that's part of the mindset at play here, I think.
― epistantophus, Friday, 4 November 2011 12:22 (twelve years ago) link
the local distiller could still be getting all his grain from global sources, you don't know that
― ASPIE Rocky (dayo), Friday, 4 November 2011 12:26 (twelve years ago) link
Right but I was talking specifically about "a locally distilled product made with locally-sourced ingredients."
― epistantophus, Friday, 4 November 2011 12:37 (twelve years ago) link
artisanal moonshine
― citation needed (Steve Shasta), Friday, 4 November 2011 12:38 (twelve years ago) link
My point was that the decision of whether to support a local distiller is not solely based on whether the midshelf mass-produced product is of equal quality.
― epistantophus, Friday, 4 November 2011 12:40 (twelve years ago) link
i sold a book on canning/preserving and a how-to moonshine book to a dude last week. the revolution will be pickled.
― scott seward, Friday, 4 November 2011 12:55 (twelve years ago) link
feel like a lot of these products' 'rustic' quality is more like a 'hey mommy look what I made in arts and crafts today!' quality
― ASPIE Rocky (dayo), Friday, 4 November 2011 13:00 (twelve years ago) link
this is maybe only tangentially related to this thread but i thought it was interesting--boutique brooklyn chocolatiers get a shipment of cocoa beans by sail
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303714704576385951539124310.html
― max, Friday, 4 November 2011 13:04 (twelve years ago) link
― epistantophus, Friday, November 4, 2011 8:37 AM (22 minutes ago) Bookmark
ime "locally-sourced ingredients" is a huge issue here. there are some microdistilleries that claim to use locally-sourced grains but they only do for a fraction of their output, with the rest being the same bulk grains that everyone buys. similarly, i'd be willing to wager that a lot of these guys use the same handful of sources for malt and barrels.
― call all destroyer, Friday, 4 November 2011 13:07 (twelve years ago) link
from an environmental standpoint local is not necessarily better. depends on the situation but mass production + shipping stuff via enormous container ships can actually have a lower overall footprint.
― iatee, Friday, 4 November 2011 13:13 (twelve years ago) link
but if we assume people are ~buying less stuff~ then that effect can make up for it I guess.
― iatee, Friday, 4 November 2011 13:15 (twelve years ago) link
you have to be careful with some of these young hip dudes making axes because a lot of them went to progressive schools that stressed "process" over "product". just watch where you swing that axe is all i'm saying.
― scott seward, Friday, 4 November 2011 13:15 (twelve years ago) link
Insert Pink Floyd img joke here.
― i couldn't adjust the food knobs (Phil D.), Friday, 4 November 2011 13:19 (twelve years ago) link
xxxxxp True, the "local" tag can be used misleadingly as well, I suppose. But, at least in my area, there's been an explosion of new, local grain farms, hop farms, and even maltsters in the past few years. I think that as we see more and more of these "support" businesses open on the small/independent/local/community scale, the local distillers, brewers, etc. will have more options for sourcing their ingredients locally without breaking the bank. Because, in the end, why start a small, local business if you're not going to support other small, local businesses in doing so? And I guess that's about all I'm going to say on the subject, because I'm getting really sick of writing the word "local". Somebody get me a thesaurus.
― epistantophus, Friday, 4 November 2011 13:20 (twelve years ago) link
to make money, tbh
― blind pele (darraghmac), Friday, 4 November 2011 13:22 (twelve years ago) link
"regionally indigenous"
― scott seward, Friday, 4 November 2011 13:23 (twelve years ago) link
― epistantophus, Friday, November 4, 2011 9:20 AM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark
yeah i mean there is reason for cautious optimism in this space due to some of the things you point out; it's just not quite there yet imo.
― call all destroyer, Friday, 4 November 2011 13:25 (twelve years ago) link
if everyone that needs an axe were to buy their axe at their local artizan axemaster and that axe were the only axe they'd ever need, how long could that local axemaster earn a living before he'd run out of customers
― blind pele (darraghmac), Friday, 4 November 2011 13:26 (twelve years ago) link
he'd need to charge quite a high price, that axemaster, tbh
or else he'd need to diversify his product range to include other cutting & chopping tools
― elmo argonaut, Friday, 4 November 2011 13:28 (twelve years ago) link
people used to make money by selling things and then repairing those things when they needed repairing. so maybe the axe guy could make extra axe bucks by sharpening your axe for you.
― scott seward, Friday, 4 November 2011 13:29 (twelve years ago) link
even so, realistically speaking he'd be working with a very limited demand pool
― blind pele (darraghmac), Friday, 4 November 2011 13:29 (twelve years ago) link
door to door knife sharpening. when are the kids gonna get on that old job.
― scott seward, Friday, 4 November 2011 13:30 (twelve years ago) link
That's why business for small-town artisans is so different when people can order this stuff online.
― your way better (Eazy), Friday, 4 November 2011 13:31 (twelve years ago) link
ok, so we have a blacksmith in the village, allowing for sharpening, grinding, etc. Sustainable as a local enterprise?
― blind pele (darraghmac), Friday, 4 November 2011 13:31 (twelve years ago) link
darning socks. my mom used to do that! she never had to buy socks. probably put a ton of sock retailers out of business near us.
― scott seward, Friday, 4 November 2011 13:32 (twelve years ago) link
scott: we still had 'tinkers' doing that and pot mending etc up to maybe two generations ago, but there's reasons the door-to-door tooling trade died out
― blind pele (darraghmac), Friday, 4 November 2011 13:33 (twelve years ago) link
i think we're heading into m night shyamalan's 'the village' with this.
― blind pele (darraghmac), Friday, 4 November 2011 13:34 (twelve years ago) link
wear jeans until they have holes. patch holes. when holes no longer patchable make into shorts. when too ripped up as shorts cut into rags and use as rags. when too raggy sew into quilt. we were like the indians and their damn beefalos.
― scott seward, Friday, 4 November 2011 13:34 (twelve years ago) link
rags-quilt is a bit of a manky progression tbh
― blind pele (darraghmac), Friday, 4 November 2011 13:36 (twelve years ago) link
xxp Yes, now people buy cheap things, packaged in the least recyclable materials possible, and then throw them away when they wear out. Thanks, free market!
― epistantophus, Friday, 4 November 2011 13:37 (twelve years ago) link
okay maybe not a quilt. cut into strips and, uh, hook a rug or something. that's what grandma was good for.
― scott seward, Friday, 4 November 2011 13:38 (twelve years ago) link
Although the "used-rag quilt" does not sound appealing. xp haha
― epistantophus, Friday, 4 November 2011 13:38 (twelve years ago) link
i still have a little pillow made out of a pair of my jeans from when i was a kid. lovely little pillow.
― scott seward, Friday, 4 November 2011 13:39 (twelve years ago) link
POT MENDING, now there's something you don't hear about. How do metal pots need mending?? Who wears a whole in the bottom of a cook pot? Maybe I'm taking this too literally?
Easy on the crazy quilts, there, you disgusting savages. Every worn out garment has some part that's still good. Things wear out where you do the work.
― WE DO NOT HAVE "SECRET" "MEETINGS." I DO NOT HAVE A SECOND (Laurel), Friday, 4 November 2011 13:40 (twelve years ago) link
cf http://joyfulhomaker.com/RagCoatbook.jpg
<3 <3 Appalachia
― WE DO NOT HAVE "SECRET" "MEETINGS." I DO NOT HAVE A SECOND (Laurel), Friday, 4 November 2011 13:41 (twelve years ago) link
I always wondered that too; maybe handles break off or something?
― epistantophus, Friday, 4 November 2011 13:41 (twelve years ago) link
i'd go shorts-rags-call it a day
Course, once upon a time there'd a bin a local rag n bone man but now it's just hipsters traipsing around in a $100k handmade oak wagon looking for last year's abercrombie scarves to weave into neil gaiman's next graphic novel masterpiece
― blind pele (darraghmac), Friday, 4 November 2011 13:41 (twelve years ago) link
i still have some of my grandparents pots and pans. some of them must be 60 years old or more.
― scott seward, Friday, 4 November 2011 13:42 (twelve years ago) link
maybe pots are just better-made or modern cooking appliances are easier on the potarse or maybe we microwave everything, myriad causes imo
― blind pele (darraghmac), Friday, 4 November 2011 13:43 (twelve years ago) link
Well you can't "mend" cast iron, it has to be cast. So at the most, we'd be talking about...tin?
― WE DO NOT HAVE "SECRET" "MEETINGS." I DO NOT HAVE A SECOND (Laurel), Friday, 4 November 2011 13:44 (twelve years ago) link
i use a cast iron pan for a lot of the cooking i do and i can't imagine that i'll ever need another one in my lifetime. i have two actually. one big and one small. same with the big stew pot that i use. it should last forever. that's, like, 60% of my cooking materials right there. pots for boiling though yeah the handle problem.
― scott seward, Friday, 4 November 2011 13:45 (twelve years ago) link
cast iron gets cast in the bin when it breaks iirc.
― epistantophus, Friday, 4 November 2011 13:50 (twelve years ago) link