Can someone explain Ayn Rand to me?!

ok, for books to read, i like we the living because it was from a point when she wasn't like "raawr compassion is evil", and atlas shrugged because it has a random pirate.

It worked!

Had a longtime amphetamine prescription for "weight control"; it is believed that this may have influenced some of her later behavior and decision-making.

Does anyone know what the latter is a reference to? I'm having a Monday Morning, and could do with stories of Objectivists inviting Ayn to fancy dinners, and her doing the hokey-cokey on the table.

If I want to read fiction by swivel-eyed maniacs, I'll stick w/Wyndham Lewis, thx. One of the few times I actually got scared on teh intarweb was when I looked at this deranged robotick rand fansite, and got the ph34r. What if these people find out I'm looking at their site? Can they find me, and hunt my ass down? It was like the pod-people in "...er argc, that film. The one where people come out of pods, and take over. Anyway, I suppose her whole life story & stuff in kind of interesting, but her followers - ick. God help us all if this thread gets googled pt 217.

(and of course let me know if anyone googles for "Ayn Rand porn")

Kate, we had this at our school too! Even though I thought a lot of the ideas in the book were pretty repulsive I entered anyway because I was desperate for money -- I wasn't exactly surprised I didn't win because it was torture just writing the essay.

When I was in college, my roommate dated a Randian goth who called his band "We the Living".

I hate to generalize, but Objectivism seems to appeal to mousy women and geeky men, NOT "alpha" men and women.

This is not so much a philosophy as it is a cult .

x-post : I know, "Randian goth" - it's just ridiculous.

Hokey Cokey.

What fletrejet said.

The point is that Rand and Hubbard were cultists. So what's your argument that there is a similar Chomsky cult? Especially when the people I know who tell me to read such-and-such by Chomsky are usually plain old liberals? Obviously if he's "dogmatic", it's not working too well.

Dogma : n. 1. That which is held as an opinion; a belief, principle, tenet; esp. a tenet or doctrine authoritatively laid down by a particular church, sect, or school of thought;

i.e., go with me or burn in (ideological) hell.

...so who's your guru, Don? Or are you too cool for that?

We can go 'round and around with the definition of "dogmatic", but near as I can tell, it wasn't out of line for me to use it in this context. More importantly, you spun my words to your own context--rather than ask for clarification, you simply started making assumptions. To wit, I posted that Rand reminds me of Hubbard and Chomsky in the way she inspires extremists. I didn't assert that Chomsky was a cultist or that followers of his intellect were. If it's guilt by association, that's not my fault. That's your reflexive defensiveness. Just because Chomsky's followers don't have some cult-like name for themselves doesn't mean that they don't come off as dogmatic. That's kind of my whole point. You're just annoyed that someone could put Rand and Chomsky in the same sentence together.

Oh, and why do I suddenly need some sort of guru? Is that a requirement for my existence? Why am I too cool if I don't have one? To be honest, I'd probably put my parent's name, or maybe my wife in that spot if you want to pin me down that badly.

I don't own a single Chomsky book, as a matter of fact - I'm too lowbrow for that, so let's stick to logical arguments and not speculation, please, as long as we're all trying to appear as independent-minded as possible.

I don't think Chomsky is a good comparison. I also dislike Chomsky's writing and think he's very obscurantist. He hashes his shit around to make it assume more relevance that it really has, and uses big words to make it sound like better ideas than it really is. If he could start from a solid, basic thesis, and also write it well, I would like him more. I like him best when he's interviewed by other people. The way he hashes shit around, I think you could call it facile, and also call Scientology and Objectivism facile, but I wouldn't call it dogmatic.

Ayn Rand's Objectivism is a facile, rationalizing cover for market-Nazism. Wealth-supremacy would also be a good term for it. The basic idea is that wealth should be the basic measure of everything, and all culture and politics should be oriented towards getting wealth and controlled by the wealthy. Ignoring of course, that there's a such thing as a cost of living, and that there can be no egalitarianism without a level playing field for how people make their living. Objectivism pretends that there's no such thing as coercion in the labor market, so all wealth distribution is meritocratic. It pretends to be egalitarian through "free trade."

For an example if how ridiculous that is, Ayn Rand supported child factory labor by saying "at least they aren't dead" and that laissez-faire capitalism gives people freedom by raising living standards, as if there wasn't such a thing as the Great Depression. She also hated there being a minimum wage. I wouldn't be surprised if she hated that there was such a thing as weekends, overtime, and retirement, too.

I think it's kind of wierd someone said she disliked homosexuals. That doesn't seem to fit because Objectivism calls itself "libertarian." (A perversion of classic libertarianism of course because it's anti-egalitarian- it means total liberty for how wealthy people spend their money, like child sex should be legal just because people want to buy it.) Also, on the "objectivism dating service" thread, someone said she was really into kinky sex.

Finally, while I regret making any assumptions--in this case, assuming what you would be annoyed about--it seems to me that you were doing quite a bit of assuming yourself, including that little tossed off line about me having a guru or not. I'm glad you confess to being lowbrow anyway. It's a lot more fun down here, as you well know.

Transcription from a TV interview on 25 Nov 1992

JOHN PILGER: And yet you’re often described as an extremist
CHOMSKY: Sure. I am an extremist. Because a ‘moderate’ is anyone who supports western power, and an extremist is anyone who objects to them.

admittedly, it drives you up the wall that I did that.

Apparently, you enjoy "driving (certain) people up the wall", or at least imagining that you do. Maybe it's just because I don't see legions of Chomskyites all over the 'net - it's just not the same author / audience relationship, and I don't find your characterization convincing. If you pursue your thinking to its logical conclusion, than anyone who closely follows a prominent thinker is "dogmatic". It just seems like an anti-intellectual argument at its core.

And as for the legions of Rand-ites and Hubbard-ites on the 'net, I don't ever and have never seen them. I didn't run into them in undergrad or grad school either, but I sure as shit knew a lot of people who were familiar with Chomsky. So if it's merely my experience that is guiding my perspective on this, I apologize. I'm sure there are a lot of Objectivists and Scientologists on the Internet but I have not ever run into one.

As for what I enjoy doing or imagining what I enjoy doing, I thought we were going to stop making assumptions. Whatever.

Obviously because everyone around here is so much smarter than me, I've lost the argument, and I must resort to desperation in order to preserve my precious dignity. After all, Chomsky isn't anything like Ayn Rand. He's not extreme in any way, there is not even the slightest amount of dogma to anything he does, none of his followers are dogmatic in any way, and if I didn't have massive self esteem problems I wouldn't end up playing the house asshole on every political thread that I have time to participate in. Sucks to be me.

You are the only person who's got the reference so far. :-/

he's a really interesting character. not all unsympathetic iirr. (became mildly obsessed when I was abt 20).

Half Cornish, you know! Also ginger. Patron saint of talented youths who squandered their vast potential!

Was gonna start a Pick A Bronte: Poll! thread on ILB but, um, apparently this is the ILX Bronte thread:

the Bronte sisters Porn book

Hmmm.

AR and megan mccardle are the two chicks libertarians dig. see, they're not sexist

oh and veronique de rugy. tax cuts pay for themselves

http://www.arpanetdialogues.net/vol-iv/

I am surprised to be in such a conversation. It feels like a deliberate test.

It's not real.

http://www.newscientist.com/blogs/culturelab/2011/04/so-reagan-signs-into-this-chatroom.html

nothing is real but john galt

well known, from wikipedia:

Rand underwent surgery for lung cancer in 1974 after decades of heavy smoking.[88] In 1976, she retired from writing her newsletter and, despite her initial objections, was persuaded to allow Evva Pryor, a consultant from her attorney's office, to sign her up for Social Security and Medicare.[89] During the late 1970s her activities within the Objectivist movement declined, especially after the death of her husband on November 9, 1979.[90] One of her final projects was work on a never-completed television adaptation of Atlas Shrugged.[91]

Rand died of heart failure on March 6, 1982, at her home in New York City,[92] and was interred in the Kensico Cemetery, Valhalla, New York.[93] Rand's funeral was attended by some of her prominent followers, including Alan Greenspan. A six-foot floral arrangement in the shape of a dollar sign was placed near her casket

question: you would think that she, of all people, would have the motivation to not accept social security or medicare. so she must have been broke? i always just assumed she was rich because she wrote best selling books and traveled widely and hung out with a bunch of rich assholes. did she really whittle away her life savings so much that she had to accept help from the evil altruistic govt?

A six-foot floral arrangement in the shape of a dollar sign was placed near her casket

gangsta

A broke ass person memorialized by a giant dollar sign floral arrangement vs a richass mofo with a giant floral cross in a church, we live in a crazy place

Rand's funeral was attended by some of her prominent followers, including Alan Greenspan

gangsta

http://www.internetweekly.org/images/alan_greenspan_poster.jpg

Needs a Sgt. Pepper parody

https://scontent-lga1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xft1/v/t1.0-9/11825700_10153099759181475_682204531232852883_n.jpg?oh=fab9d63f7fef8d1ec06fcf9f73cfbeb1&oe=564D470D

http://billmoyers.com/story/media-morality-neighbors-cow/

neal gabler otm

https://www.thedailybeast.com/john-galton-wanted-libertarian-paradise-in-anarchapulco-he-got-bullets-instead

would crosspost to bitcoins thread if I could find it

john galton

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EAq-VzeXoAAsWX-?format=jpg