Has ILE become too pally?

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I only get on the funny thread when I'm not trying to be funny, stop laughing at me!

jel -- (jel), Saturday, 19 July 2003 14:42 (twenty years ago) link

HA-ha

JuliaA (j_bdules), Saturday, 19 July 2003 14:46 (twenty years ago) link

It seems to me to trivialize those sentiments.

it seems that way to me, too, but then I have to sit back and realize that these other people ARE NOT ME, and have v. different emotional lives and may mean exactly what they say when they do that effusive ILXor love thing.

I have serious issues with strong emotions and other people probably don't. That's my problem, not theirs. I know exactly where Amateurist is coming from but at the same time I like to think I know where the other side is coming from as well

(obv I do not, to be honest)

Millar (Millar), Saturday, 19 July 2003 14:51 (twenty years ago) link

Somehow my Nelson closing tag didn't show.

In terms of people being supportive and that seeming trivial...there may be some insincerity on these boards, but it seems that very many of these sentiments are real. Especially with the more prolific posters, you get to know people a bit from their posts, and become fond of some of them. And it sucks to see anyone hurt.

JuliaA (j_bdules), Saturday, 19 July 2003 14:57 (twenty years ago) link

the honesty and sincerity surprises me a lot at times. an example being someone feeling the need to post about how they're feeling relating to something quite deep and personal...and receiving all the right comments in return, from people they know and from people they don't know so well at all. you could be cynical about all that but i think there's a genuine sense of love and concern around which is re-assuring. revealing so much about yourself on a public msg board as cathartic exercise is obviously not for everybody tho.

stevem (blueski), Saturday, 19 July 2003 15:08 (twenty years ago) link

Has ILE become too pally? Well sometimes it seems like the board should really be called We Love Ourselves, but given that there's no set topic on ILE you have to go with the conversational ebbs and flows... so, whatever. The palliness on ILM bugs me more, because I see ILE as being for "fucking around" and ILM being for braney music talk. They both have their place, but I don't always want my chocolate to get into my peanut butter. That's just a preference; I'm not lobbying for ILM to become a solemn, humorless think tank. But I wish some of the more frequent posters could get their notch on the statscock by actually talking about MUSIC, for a change.

Jody Beth Rosen (Jody Beth Rosen), Saturday, 19 July 2003 15:48 (twenty years ago) link

haha JBR in between brainy music talk and palling around you've basically nailed why I only ever read ILM like once a month

Millar (Millar), Saturday, 19 July 2003 15:52 (twenty years ago) link

(also whenever I go there I end up spending wads of money shortly afterwards and that's not always a good thing)

Millar (Millar), Saturday, 19 July 2003 15:53 (twenty years ago) link

That's surely the best compliment ILM could receive, Tom!

amateurist (amateurist), Saturday, 19 July 2003 18:14 (twenty years ago) link

Not necessarily, because I want him to give his money to me.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 19 July 2003 18:23 (twenty years ago) link

Millar OTM in his last paragraph-long post.

It seems to me that the issue at hand stems simply from the fact that people are different from one another. Some people are not tolerant of this and would prefer if everyone posted as they themselves would post. Some people are not sociable, jokey types and reading sociable, jokey posts may grate on them. They don't feel genuine concern or empathy for other people, besides a select few loved ones, and assume that those who show concern and empathy freely must be faking it.

oops (Oops), Saturday, 19 July 2003 18:44 (twenty years ago) link

That's a total misrepresentation of my point of view, but oh well.

amateurist (amateurist), Saturday, 19 July 2003 18:59 (twenty years ago) link

Well then explain your point of view

oops (Oops), Saturday, 19 July 2003 19:03 (twenty years ago) link

I don't appreciate your calling me intolerant.

Concern and empathy aren't really my pet peeves, as these can be and are in many different ways--it's excessive flattery and effusive sentiment that doesn't seem to have much basis. The sort of thing Jody alludes to when she calls ILE "We Love Us."

I know a woman, she's a friend of my mother's, and at get-togethers she inevitably gives a toast in which she rambles on and on about how much she loves everyone, how special everyone is, how beautiful and smart and etc.. Most people are rather embarrassed for her, for her toasts seems to be less about actually loving anyone (although I'm sure it is not *dishonest* per se) as her needing to feel a part of something, soak in emotion. (Said person all attends funerals of people she hardly knows and cries profusely, and calls up dying friends 10 times a day to see if she can "help," over the objections of said friend's husband.)

Does it not belittle certain feelings and thoughts if you go around expressing them in the most enthusiastic terms willy-nilly? Also does every thought and emotion have to be expressed in the most enthusiastic, hyperbolic terms?

You're right though that I probably prefer less expression of "feelings" (in the overt, explicit sense) than many. It's a cornerstone of my personality, and yet I don't think it makes me "unemotional"--quite the contrary.

From my first post here I said only that I myself "balk" at these effusions, not that anyone was being insincere or dishonest ("faking it"), nor that anyone should have to stop them on my behalf.

amateurist (amateurist), Saturday, 19 July 2003 19:17 (twenty years ago) link

Whoops. Correction:

Concern and empathy aren't really my pet peeves, as these can be and are EXPRESSED in many different ways

amateurist (amateurist), Saturday, 19 July 2003 19:18 (twenty years ago) link

I know a woman, she's a friend of my mother's, and at get-togethers she inevitably gives a toast in which she rambles on and on about how much she loves everyone, how special everyone is, how beautiful and smart and etc..

This sounds like me at 5am Sunday morning at Glastonbury.

N. (nickdastoor), Saturday, 19 July 2003 19:19 (twenty years ago) link

--it's excessive flattery and effusive sentiment that doesn't seem to have much basis.

And how are you determining what is excessive?
I call bullshit on your economy of emotions, but, to each his own.

oops (Oops), Saturday, 19 July 2003 19:20 (twenty years ago) link

"Bullshit"?

amateurist (amateurist), Saturday, 19 July 2003 19:21 (twenty years ago) link

TS: Love Is a Many-Splendored Thing vs. An Affair to Remember

amateurist (amateurist), Saturday, 19 July 2003 19:22 (twenty years ago) link

Oops do you actually read my posts or do you simply object to them a priori?

amateurist (amateurist), Saturday, 19 July 2003 19:23 (twenty years ago) link

I am enjoying seeing someone with don'temailmebitch@hotmail.com as their email address stick up for internet community spirit.

N. (nickdastoor), Saturday, 19 July 2003 19:23 (twenty years ago) link

yes, i read your posts. what makes you think i didn't? I mean, I sort of agree w/what you said, I just don't think your RL example was reflective of what happens on ILE.

oops (Oops), Saturday, 19 July 2003 19:25 (twenty years ago) link

I know a woman, she's a friend of my mother's, and at get-togethers she inevitably gives a toast in which she rambles on and on about how much she loves everyone, how special everyone is, how beautiful and smart and etc.. Most people are rather embarrassed for her, for her toasts seems to be less about actually loving anyone (although I'm sure it is not *dishonest* per se) as her needing to feel a part of something, soak in emotion. (Said person all attends funerals of people she hardly knows and cries profusely, and calls up dying friends 10 times a day to see if she can "help," over the objections of said friend's husband.)

Ha! I used to know someone like this. Opinions were split among mutual acquaintances -- her friends obv thought she was the ginchiest loveliest most generous person evah because she flattered them so and was always "there" and was very vocal about her there-ness, making sure everyone was 100% aware how full of 24/7/365 concern and sympathy and YOU ROCK and today's-your-birthday-isn't-it she was, while other people just found her really flaky and shallow and disingenuous. People like her have made me wary of all manner of compliments and excessive good will, because I always have to wonder about the person's motives and/or sincerity. I do sometimes see behavior on ILX that reminds me of hers... I'm not sure how to react to it, really. The people I care about know that I care about them, and if they need me I'm here and willing to help, but I refuse to launch a million-dollar campaign to elect myself Humanitarian of the Year. So if I'm noticeably quiet about these things, that's why.

Jody Beth Rosen (Jody Beth Rosen), Saturday, 19 July 2003 19:47 (twenty years ago) link

Amateurist, you ARE suggesting the statements of strong feelings are false, by your view that expressing such things willy nilly diminishes them. I am certainly not doing anything of the kind, and I don't see many people expressing strong positive feelings towards people here much more than I do. I'm not asking you to like it, but you have zero basis for implying it is in any way not real and carefully pitched to be honest and true. I can't speak for everyone else, and there may be people saying things they don't mean, but from private conversations and the kind of reactions I have received when bad things have happened, I'd say most people are expressing things truthfully and proportionately.

Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Saturday, 19 July 2003 19:50 (twenty years ago) link

Amateurist, you ARE suggesting the statements of strong feelings are false, by your view that expressing such things willy nilly diminishes them

I don't think this logically valid, Martin. They could be true to the person who makes them, no matter how often they do it, but still diminish the force of sympathy by their ubiquity. A kind of converse of compassion fatigue.

N. (nickdastoor), Saturday, 19 July 2003 19:53 (twenty years ago) link

Ah, you don't even believe that, Nick. Amateurist said "if you go around expressing them in the most enthusiastic terms willy-nilly" - this implies that they are being expressed more strongly (probably a lot more, or the game is not worth the candle) than they are felt. Amateurist clearly thinks that many people are expressing far more than they genuinely feel. Obviously I can't tell him he's always wrong, and I don't even suppose he is, always, but I still object to his implication that when I tell someone I care a lot about how they feel, that I probably don't really mean it. I know he isn't naming me at all, but as I said I think I express these things as often and effusively as just about anyone, so I think I'm a decent example.

Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Saturday, 19 July 2003 21:41 (twenty years ago) link

I just wish people would provide specific example of whatever annoys them so. grow some balls. ante up.

James Blount (James Blount), Saturday, 19 July 2003 21:45 (twenty years ago) link

It's not really a case of what I believe, Martin - I was just saying that the one doesn't necessarily follow from the other, even if it is suggestive of it. As for Amateurist's real position, can't you just accept it when he unambiguously states (in the same post as the one you quote from):

From my first post here I said only that I myself "balk" at these effusions, not that anyone was being insincere or dishonest ("faking it"), nor that anyone should have to stop them on my behalf.

N. (nickdastoor), Saturday, 19 July 2003 21:48 (twenty years ago) link

I could if it fit with anything else he said - and anyway even in that statement the word 'effusions' still implies that the feelings are being overstated.

Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Saturday, 19 July 2003 21:59 (twenty years ago) link

Effusions just means they are given liberally. Some people are just very emo!

N. (nickdastoor), Saturday, 19 July 2003 22:45 (twenty years ago) link

amateurist, I love you, man.

Al Andalous, Saturday, 19 July 2003 22:56 (twenty years ago) link

i'm with martin skidmore on this issue.

di smith (lucylurex), Saturday, 19 July 2003 23:45 (twenty years ago) link

To clarify a bit -- I'm not actually attacking anyone here, even though I said I observed certain qualities among the ILX posting body that reminded me of the woman I described upthread. This is my issue, I guess, that a few seemingly insincere people in my life have made me distrustful of EVERYONE'S intentions. But it's important to have some kind of bullshit radar with these things; if you're naive, you risk getting fucked over or hurt. Where is the line drawn?

Jody Beth Rosen (Jody Beth Rosen), Sunday, 20 July 2003 02:31 (twenty years ago) link

wak-wak-wak-wak-wow-wow-yik-yakakakaka-kow!

James Blount (James Blount), Sunday, 20 July 2003 02:43 (twenty years ago) link

*snort*

Jody Beth Rosen (Jody Beth Rosen), Sunday, 20 July 2003 03:34 (twenty years ago) link

What I have noticed:
People post about their lives on ILE.
Am I allowed to post about MY life on ILE?
If the answer is no, then ILE has become too pally.

Orbit (Orbit), Sunday, 20 July 2003 05:36 (twenty years ago) link

this muhfuh's become too pale-y I'll tell you that - you seem them fap photos: get some sun people!

James Blount (James Blount), Sunday, 20 July 2003 05:40 (twenty years ago) link

You can say pretty much whatever the fuck you want to say, Orbit. Just don't threaten violence against anyone, ok? We don't have to pay any attention, or we may choose to, it's up to us. I have no right to do so, but could I make one suggestion? Could you try not to shout so much? Thank you.

Bryan (Bryan), Sunday, 20 July 2003 05:40 (twenty years ago) link

I don't shout that much. What are you talking about? I don't shout any more or less than anyone else!

Orbit (Orbit), Sunday, 20 July 2003 05:43 (twenty years ago) link

YES YOU DO!!!

James Blount (James Blount), Sunday, 20 July 2003 05:46 (twenty years ago) link

actually I have no idea whether you do or not, that was just too easy

James Blount (James Blount), Sunday, 20 July 2003 05:46 (twenty years ago) link

Well I don't shout any more than anyone else
. But I'm not offended by the joke. ;-)

Orbit (Orbit), Sunday, 20 July 2003 05:48 (twenty years ago) link

You shout a fair bit on your own threads, but I guess that's your right, sort of. Actually, go ahead and shout! I like it, come to think of it.

Bryan (Bryan), Sunday, 20 July 2003 05:52 (twenty years ago) link

Just some points of fact:
I haven't made very many threads. Only one thread: ATTACK was a shout and the whole thread was a shout by everyone because that was the point of the thread. Other than ATTACK I have never made an all-caps thread nor have I posted all-caps to someone else's thread.

If you look at the thread list, I'm not shouting any more than anyone else.

Perhaps because at the start of two threads I said: GO! GO! ?
That's pretty trvial. But I'm not worried about it. I will in the future say Go. Go.
You will then be happy.

Orbit (Orbit), Sunday, 20 July 2003 05:59 (twenty years ago) link

I'm sorry if I wasn't clear. I honestly do enjoy the shouting. I wasn't being sarcastic! Please, Orbit, accept my apologies.

Bryan (Bryan), Sunday, 20 July 2003 06:01 (twenty years ago) link

No offense taken. My reply was also sincere, no offense intended. ;)

Orbit (Orbit), Sunday, 20 July 2003 06:02 (twenty years ago) link

OH NO! NOT THE WINKY!!! I CAN'T BEAR THE WINKY!!! Um... ;-)

Bryan (Bryan), Sunday, 20 July 2003 06:03 (twenty years ago) link

Embrace emoticon love.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 20 July 2003 06:05 (twenty years ago) link

Hi Ned! (or was that too pally?)

Bryan (Bryan), Sunday, 20 July 2003 06:06 (twenty years ago) link

Yes, I believe I will. :-)

Orbit (Orbit), Sunday, 20 July 2003 06:07 (twenty years ago) link


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