and scary!
― scott seward, Tuesday, 21 February 2012 21:41 (twelve years ago) link
xxxpost Shakey: personally, or in movies?
― Janet Snakehole (VegemiteGrrl), Tuesday, 21 February 2012 21:41 (twelve years ago) link
the epigram at the beginning of apocalypto makes it a gross movie imo
― http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1tAYmMjLdY (dayo), Tuesday, 21 February 2012 21:41 (twelve years ago) link
its better than The Rock in the jungle, but The Rock in the jungle was still awesome.
are there dudes looking like DLR/Yankee Rose album cover y/n
― Janet Snakehole (VegemiteGrrl), Tuesday, 21 February 2012 21:42 (twelve years ago) link
it's almost as good as Anaconda.
― scott seward, Tuesday, 21 February 2012 21:42 (twelve years ago) link
I don't even remember the epigram at the beginning of Apocalypto
I don't really remember the torture tbh; I just remember high quality chasing
― (thinks and smiles) (DJP), Tuesday, 21 February 2012 21:42 (twelve years ago) link
hmmm...it seems I may need to roll the dice after all
Fugitive in the Jungle kind of sells me
it's a really good action movie. that's what i'll say. its non-stop.
is it a THRILL RIDE, scott?
― Janet Snakehole (VegemiteGrrl), Tuesday, 21 February 2012 21:43 (twelve years ago) link
The politics is basically big government = apocalyptic death cult
― Unleash the Chang (he did what!) (Austerity Ponies), Tuesday, 21 February 2012 21:43 (twelve years ago) link
well that's kind of true if you think about it, just look at Congress
― (thinks and smiles) (DJP), Tuesday, 21 February 2012 21:44 (twelve years ago) link
― (thinks and smiles) (DJP), Tuesday, February 21, 2012 4:42 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark
a great civilization does not die from without unless it has killed itself from within.
something like that. basically, the mayans deserved to get conquered by the europeans because look at how savage and brutal they were.
― http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1tAYmMjLdY (dayo), Tuesday, 21 February 2012 21:45 (twelve years ago) link
I mean, maybe if we didn't know as much as we know about mel gibson's worldview the epigram would have been more palatable
yeah but rilly its about running after this dude
― scott seward, Tuesday, 21 February 2012 21:45 (twelve years ago) link
makes u think
― Janet Snakehole (VegemiteGrrl), Tuesday, 21 February 2012 21:45 (twelve years ago) link
i understand it's meant to be mel's medidation on how a godless society destroys itself. the best answer in his own case being 'white people show up' just makes it funny i guess (haven't seen it btw)
xps
― Critique of Pure Moods (goole), Tuesday, 21 February 2012 21:47 (twelve years ago) link
i won't watch any new mel movies. don't want to pretend i don't know what a freak he is. and i kinda wish he would go away forever now. mayan movie got in under the wire. or something. i caught it on t.v.
― scott seward, Tuesday, 21 February 2012 21:48 (twelve years ago) link
the whole middle part is basically 'look at these disgusting savages (no, literally, they're disgusting savages)'
― http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1tAYmMjLdY (dayo), Tuesday, 21 February 2012 21:48 (twelve years ago) link
I got turned off on him once he started making bullshit like Maverick and What Women Want, I jumped off the Mel train a long time ago.
― Janet Snakehole (VegemiteGrrl), Tuesday, 21 February 2012 21:48 (twelve years ago) link
the whole middle part is basically 'look at these disgusting savages (no, literally, they're disgusting savages)'^^^
― erotic war comedy pollster (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 21 February 2012 21:49 (twelve years ago) link
so it's like passion of the christ with more running
― Critique of Pure Moods (goole), Tuesday, 21 February 2012 21:50 (twelve years ago) link
passion of the fugitive?
― Janet Snakehole (VegemiteGrrl), Tuesday, 21 February 2012 21:50 (twelve years ago) link
mostly. Mayans = Romans, Jesus = some schmuck from the wrong tribe
― erotic war comedy pollster (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 21 February 2012 21:51 (twelve years ago) link
logan's passion
― http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1tAYmMjLdY (dayo), Tuesday, 21 February 2012 21:51 (twelve years ago) link
and in between there's lots of stabbing, beheading, disemboweling, etc.
you're selling me on this more than the ppl who like it, Shakey
― Janet Snakehole (VegemiteGrrl), Tuesday, 21 February 2012 21:52 (twelve years ago) link
what women want's getting my #1 vote in the romcom poll
― RudolfHitlerFtw (Hungry4Ass), Tuesday, 21 February 2012 21:53 (twelve years ago) link
Well that plays in more than one direction, doesn't it? The sense I came away with from the movie at the time (which I would need to rescreen to see if this reaction makes any sense or if I'm constructing memories based on Wikipedia summaries) is that it could be taken to mean that the Mayans would have had better luck repelling the Europeans had they not spent most of their time killing everyone around them.
There are also specific spoilery things I won't talk about since VG hasn't seen the movie that make it more ambiguous than whatever distasteful idea Mel had in mind when putting the thing together.
Ultimately, I just thought it was an enjoyable chase flick. Whatever actual violence was going on didn't even register to me as obscene or out of line; I literally have no memory of it, and you guys are talking like it's the entirety of the movie! (contrast with Bad Boys II where I very vividly remember both the bodies getting thrown out of the back of the hearse and the dude who got chopped up and put in a bin and the body parts flying all over the place during the siege on the bad guy's mansion, etc etc)
― (thinks and smiles) (DJP), Tuesday, 21 February 2012 21:54 (twelve years ago) link
i checked the recording this morning and got as far as the epigram and was like "ohhhh boyyyy...."
― ⚓ (gr8080), Tuesday, 21 February 2012 21:58 (twelve years ago) link
This is the quote: "A great civilization is not conquered from without until it has destroyed itself from within." - W. Durant
PS the good guys and the hero are also "savages". I didn't see it as racist.
― Unleash the Chang (he did what!) (Austerity Ponies), Tuesday, 21 February 2012 21:59 (twelve years ago) link
i totally disagree that the movie is saying "look at what savages these savages were," it was a pretty faithfully researched and respectfully made movie, it took a LOT of care to not repeat cliches, if you come away thinking "disgusting savages" i think that says more about u tbh
― A Little Princess btw (s1ocki), Tuesday, 21 February 2012 21:59 (twelve years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_99mcINufQ
― erotic war comedy pollster (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 21 February 2012 22:00 (twelve years ago) link
s1ocki what are u saying about dayo
― Janet Snakehole (VegemiteGrrl), Tuesday, 21 February 2012 22:01 (twelve years ago) link
Okay I've decided I will watch this. *deep sigh*
― A Little Princess btw (s1ocki), Tuesday, February 21, 2012 4:59 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark
lol like how human sacrifice was historically an aztec ritual and not a mayan one, even though the film depicted mayans?
― http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1tAYmMjLdY (dayo), Tuesday, 21 February 2012 22:02 (twelve years ago) link
sacrifice scene in the above clip is almost 100% bullshit - Mayans didn't rip out hearts, decapitate, and pile bodies at the bottom of pyramids fyi
― erotic war comedy pollster (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 21 February 2012 22:05 (twelve years ago) link
mine did
― A Little Princess btw (s1ocki), Tuesday, 21 February 2012 22:07 (twelve years ago) link
― Unleash the Chang (he did what!) (Austerity Ponies), Tuesday, February 21, 2012 4:59 PM (6 minutes ago) Bookmark
idk the idea of a 'noble savage' is pretty problematic in its own right imo
― http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1tAYmMjLdY (dayo), Tuesday, 21 February 2012 22:07 (twelve years ago) link
Because Maya society was organised as independent city states, the local political and religious elites could independently initiate human sacrifices as they saw fit. De Landa notes that a common cause for temple sacrifices in many cities was the occurrence of "pestilences, dissensions, or droughts or the like ills". (p. 91) In such cases, slaves were usually purchased and after a variety of rituals were anointed with blue dye and either shot with arrows through the heart or held on an altar while the priest swiftly removed the heart using a ceremonial knife. In either case the heart was presented to the temple idol, which was also anointed with blood. (pp. 48–49) According to Bancroft, one tribe sacrificed illegitimate boys twice a year, again by removing the heart, but collecting the blood in a bowl and scattering it to the four cardinal compass points within the temple.
do you see how many blue bodies are piled at the bottom in that scene btw
― erotic war comedy pollster (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 21 February 2012 22:08 (twelve years ago) link
(seriously this thread has delivered on so many levels, I can't even tell you guys)
― Janet Snakehole (VegemiteGrrl), Tuesday, 21 February 2012 22:09 (twelve years ago) link
human sacrifice - checkblue bodies - checkheat being cut out - check
― A Little Princess btw (s1ocki), Tuesday, 21 February 2012 22:09 (twelve years ago) link
hey s1ocks I'm reading the same wikipedia article and where does it mention they were thrown off of temples
― http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1tAYmMjLdY (dayo), Tuesday, 21 February 2012 22:11 (twelve years ago) link
it's in the 'dayo is being a big nitpicker' section
― A Little Princess btw (s1ocki), Tuesday, 21 February 2012 22:12 (twelve years ago) link
I'm not sure throwing the bodies off the temple is an offensive addition to the act of human sacrifice, if Mel just made that part up entirely.
― Kiarostami bag (milo z), Tuesday, 21 February 2012 22:13 (twelve years ago) link
lol I mean I like how you skipped over all the stuff that mentioned how human sacrifice was rare and not generally practiced unlike the aztecs
― http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1tAYmMjLdY (dayo), Tuesday, 21 February 2012 22:13 (twelve years ago) link
well mel didn't make it up - there's historical evidence for that being part of the aztec ritual, and also evidence for the aztec practicing it much more widely than the mayans. it was just convenient for mel to ascribe the aztec ritual to the mayans, why, it looks flashy and lets us know what disgusting savages the mayans were.
― http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1tAYmMjLdY (dayo), Tuesday, 21 February 2012 22:14 (twelve years ago) link
― https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0 (dayo), Tuesday, February 21, 2012 5:13 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
sfw if it was RARE, it happened, much like he portrayed it, movies are often about RARE EVENTS HOW OFTEN DO HOLY GRAILS GET DISCOVERED AND STOLEN BY NAZIS?!??!
― A Little Princess btw (s1ocki), Tuesday, 21 February 2012 22:15 (twelve years ago) link
The traditional view is that the Mayans were far less prolific in sacrificing people than their neighbours. Bancroft notes: "An event which in Mexico would be the death-signal to a hecatomb of human victims would in Yucatan be celebrated by the death of a spotted dog."(p. 704) But mounting archeological evidence has for many decades now supported the chroniclers' contention that human sacrifice was far from unknown in Maya society.[12][13] The city of Chichen Itza, the main focus of Maya regional power from the Late Classical period, appears to have also been a major focus of human sacrifice. There are two natural sink holes, or cenotes, at the site of the city, which would have provided a plentiful supply of potable water. The largest of these, Cenote Sagrado (also known as the Well of Sacrifice), was where many victims were cast as an offering to the rain god Chaac. A 2007 study of remains taken from this cenote found that they had wounds consistent with human sacrifice.[14]
― Critique of Pure Moods (goole), Tuesday, 21 February 2012 22:19 (twelve years ago) link