Ta-Nehisi Coates Rules, The Thread

http://i.imgur.com/OVBos.png

lol dude get over yrself

Needs more context, I presume.

lol you

Enh, dude's just giving himself a spacer before dumping on the dead.

well if you read him, and i am a fan, he just will not stop w/these calls for thoughtfulness which is really something thats better demonstrated than talked about

i mean if you want to take some time to think abt something theres absolutely no need to tweet abt it, except that maybe you think youre making some sort of statement

He's calling for circumspection which is fine, especially in light of the character of the defunct

I mean, it's not like he's _not_ going to unload on the stiff at some point.

Presumably.

if you want to call for circumspection that one thing, a fairly substance free presumptuous thing, but what he was doing is passing off his judgment of the situation as some sort of personal journey, im just gonna go think man, here is me tweeting abt thinking deeply

I read this guy and sometimes he has good things to say, but ice cr?m otm

i love ta-nehisi coates, but twitter is not for everyone

tbf he takes this stance constantly on his blog

which i think is v good except for this thing that is irritating and lame

but i guess isn't the thing that TNC has a bunch of followers who are expecting him to be posting about Breitbart, so he's kind of saying 'yes i know about this but i need to think it through before i write AS SHOULD YOU btw', like, there's an element of i-am-on-top-of-this-news but also i-am-representing-well-reasoned-thought

I think he's whistling at his readers that he knows Brietbart's dead and the reason he hasn't written anything about it yet is 'cause he hasn't gotten the smile off of his face yet.

i am representing well reasoned thought w/o actually demonstrating it is the problem

How much was the retainer?

i mean i know he didnt actually choose the cover image or the tagline but lol dude

http://i.imgur.com/M4Qwi.jpg

but i guess isn't the thing that TNC has a bunch of followers who are expecting him to be posting about Breitbart,

A strange expectation: yet one more liberal writing yet another scabrous obit?

Even granting that it is a pose he likes to strike, most writers in his position, needing to churn out copy at a fantastic rate to appease his readers, fall into characteristic tropes and poses. It is part of being a pundit. Not such a big lol in the scheme of things, but, yeah, it shows a tendency to furrow his brow a bit too obviously.

He is pretty cool. I can cut him some slack for a clunky thing here and there. He hasn't gone full Greenwald just yet.

i think his self-seriousness is inseparable from what's good about his writing when it's good.

naw he is v capable of greater self awareness and is much better in that mode

TNC will end up writing about the lack of ethics in modern poltical propaganda or epistemic closure or how the interwebs have empowered pit-bull journalism or something, but I doubt he will linger much over Brietbart himself all that much.

oh man, maybe it's TNC that is the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Sincerity

i think his self-seriousness is inseparable from what's good about his writing when it's good.

― horseshoe, Thursday, March 1, 2012 2:24 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

actually forgive me for not thinking abt this deeper, i do think whats good abt his writing is maybe p closely related to his ponderousness, he does a thing thats p endearing where you can feel him thinking, he s lets you in, which is not easy, but he tends to go off the rails w/it which is maybe not surprising considering what a delicate operation it is

also id like to say that his blog is ime much better than his long form writing but why

eh his problem isn't that he's too sincere, paul krugman is sincere too, his problem is that he spends too much time thinking outloud and being nice

(xp)

he spends too much time thinking outloud

― iatee, Thursday, March 1, 2012 2:30 PM (4 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

this is his problem, yes. twitter is bad for him, i really think, although now i sound like a crazy person who thinks ta-nehisi coates is her friend. which lol is how i actually think of him tbh. i'm fine with him being nice.

i don't really disagree with anything jho has said, though. i originally typed "ponderousness" instead of "self-seriousness." dude has a lot to say.

i'm making sure i'm putting that waxpapery ring thing on the seat before i take shit in this toilet. #breitbartpocalypse #thoughtfulguy

and he says it slowly. i always am jealous of people who can write like that; i do the opposite.

I am glad I only sporadically read his stuff as I've never come across anything exhibiting the problems/issues you guys are describing (which I half suspect are a pattern that emerges via exposure).

'i think' the thinking out loud part is just the clumsy failed aspect of what he does well when he does it well which then leads to people thinking hes their friend which is a p good trick

to be clear i really like him which is whats lead me to develop this critique of him

instead of tweeting ta-nehisi should just call me up and vent. we are on a first name basis like that.

the funny thing abt tnc on twitter is he spent so long turning his nose up at it and now hes on it all the time basically demonstrating its shortcomings in real time in the manner he previously described

sometimes I wonder - (and again I think he's 'worthy of being a tier 1 blogger' regardless) - how many people use him as their go-to source for 'what a black person thinks' because he is what a lot of people would like black people to be

...

and it's hard to disassociate that w/ the fact that he actually is an interesting writer but I see him celebrated in ways that I don't see w/ many other bloggers, like the way people compliment him out of the blue 'one of the best writers. everyone should be reading him. just great.' etc. is...different

im really glad he has started talking abt the nba and stopped talking abt video games

iatee, the "Is this racist?" thread is over here

I'm not arguing 'tnc is the result of affirmative action' I'm saying 'is it a total coincidence that the most popular africam-american blogger among white people is like the least shrill person on the internet'

africam

fyi, tnc used to kick it on ilm a bit back in the day. i've been following him since he was at the voice doing the press clips column -- he was killer funny. sometimes he can (or could, don't read regularly now) go hella hard, albeit with some dry irony.

what was his usr name

CRW

I'm not arguing 'tnc is the result of affirmative action' I'm saying 'is it a total coincidence that the most popular africam-american blogger among white people is like the least shrill person on the internet'

― iatee, Thursday, March 1, 2012 2:46 PM (7 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

in this post he talks a lil bit abt his feelings on the topic, tho obvs he doesnt get at the particular explaining black things to white folks angle itatee is talking abt

I consider myself a writer of some merit and talent, who says some interesting things from time to time. That's all very nice. But I understand that if I were in my exact same job, and happened to be just another white dude from an Ivy, I'd attract less interest. Race, as lived by individuals, is biography and people are always interested in biography when it differs from the norm in any field. I have no idea why it should be any different with Lin.

http://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2012/02/the-jeremy-lin-backlash/253076

i remember him writing about the hip hop cops at the voice

didnt realize that was him, i loved that story

Thanks for that!

what a read

https://www.bookforum.com/print/2604/inhuman-bondage-23753

Ouch. Has the novel gotten other negative reviews like that? Haven’t read it yet myself, or much about it.

I've read at least one other negative review. The most depressing part of that write-up, though, is the byline. The idea that someone who writes that poorly is an editor at Simon & Schuster, with other people's manuscripts in their custody, is terrifying.

yeah I just figured I wasn’t smart enough to understand that review

https://www.vox.com/culture/2019/9/24/20879736/water-dancer-review-ta-nehisi-coates

Ta-Nehisi Coates is not quite there yet. He doesn’t have the kind of command over the novel as a medium that will let him meld disparate genres together; he doesn’t seem to care about his characters as people rather than as devices he can use to convey ideas; he doesn’t really understand how to keep a plot moving.

it sounds like he took too long to write the book and it became muddled. he said he spent ten years writing this. no one is the same writer they were ten years ago, least of all someone who, in that time, became one of the nation's most esteemed public intellectuals

i assume he knows how to "keep a plot moving" but faltered a bit as he was trying to synthesize several different versions of the book into one narrative.

i didn't read it, just what it sounds like.

I've read at least one other negative review. The most depressing part of that write-up, though, is the byline. The idea that someone who writes that poorly is an editor at Simon & Schuster, with other people's manuscripts in their custody, is terrifying.

― shared unit of analysis (unperson), Monday, December 2, 2019 8:57 AM (eighteen minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

I'm assuming this is a young dude who is like a year or two out of grad school for literature. probably will mellow a bit as he ages.

using "apophatically" and "aporia" in one paragraph tho, bravo lol.

He is not the worlds best comics writer either. I think it's okay to be fantastic at one style, and merely ok at others.

The worst faux pas to me is that he just quotes Cornel West on 'We Were Eight Years in Power', without it seeming that he himself has read it. That's bad work.

i assume he knows how to "keep a plot moving" but faltered a bit as he was trying to synthesize several different versions of the book into one narrative.

I've been editing novels for a few years now on a freelance basis and all the errors of structure and tone called out in the Vox review are extremely familiar to me. I just finished a manuscript the other week where entire chapters were taken up by literal classroom lectures on the author's pet issues, so it's not at all surprising to me that a political essayist (and, yes, sometime comic book writer) would think his Big Novel needed multiple "slavery is bad, mmmkay?" monologues. Or that his protagonist has a sledgehammer-to-the-forehead metaphorical superpower.

i can't fucking believe there's an actual "he's not a great novelist, and that's ok!" in the vox piece

no one should be allowed to write imo

Haven't had a chance to read this yet, tbh, but I got a copy when I went to see him get interviewed about it last month. His thought process and the in-depth research he did make it sound like it could really be interesting, but at the same time I could see how it ends up muddled and disappointing.

surprised VOX writer didn't say, "Hey, Baldwin's novels were blah too!"

that vox review is just flat out embarrassing

i mean apart from gushing over how "beautiful" the sentences are (not really a good sign in most novels tbh), there's literally a paragraph where the reviewer suggests that the novel would be better if it were MORE LIKE AN AARON SORKIN SHOW

gushing over how "beautiful" the sentences are (not really a good sign in most novels tbh)

Not the greatest example, either; I was already editing that one sentence in my head, and it definitely didn't make me want to read 400 more pages.

https://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/arts/article/21135953/city-lights-join-tanehisi-coates-and-natalie-hopkinson-for-a-discussion-of-gogo-history

12 noon eastern time Facebook live chat w/ Natalie Hopkinson on his 2000 article on history of dc go-go, and he as a rap fan coming to gogo, plus more. Live on Make gogo forever page plus will be archived by DC Public Library gogo Archives

They may talk about more than go-go per the poster

what else is there to talk about

i thought it was really cool of him to show up in my parents town, where my mom taught, to support a teacher who was reprimanded for teaching "between the world and me" to a high school AP class. my mom got a chance to talk to him and called me immediately afterward like she was on cloud 9

That’s awesome!

I wish he’d write another polemic - not a novel, not a comic book, not an opera, nor a screenplay, not a poetry collection. (But I get that he wants to try other stuff, etc.)

“You can’t behold evil and then return and not speak on it.”

Ta-Nehisi Coates speaks about how an experience in Palestine illuminated the connections between the African American and Palestinian liberation struggles, and the moral responsibility to speak out. pic.twitter.com/y0HrXibUJz

— Democracy Now! (@democracynow) November 2, 2023

This time, he lays forth the case that the Israeli occupation is a moral crime, one that has been all but covered up by the West. He writes, “I don’t think I ever, in my life, felt the glare of racism burn stranger and more intense than in Israel.” https://t.co/oMU9ZAXoBx

— New York Magazine (@NYMag) September 23, 2024

The reaction to this will be interesting.

Ha I was about to post the exact same thing

Well.

But he had been told, by journalists he trusted and respected, that Israel was a democracy — “the only democracy in the Middle East.” He had also been told that the conflict was “complicated,” its history tortuous and contested, and, as he writes, “that a body of knowledge akin to computational mathematics was needed to comprehend it.” He was astonished by the plain truth of what he saw: the walls, checkpoints, and guns that everywhere hemmed in the lives of Palestinians; the clear tiers of citizenship between the first-class Jews and the second-class Palestinians; and the undisguised contempt with which the Israeli state treated the subjugated other. For Coates, the parallels with the Jim Crow South were obvious and immediate: Here, he writes, was a “world where separate and unequal was alive and well, where rule by the ballot for some and the bullet for others was policy.” And this world was made possible by his own country: “The pushing of Palestinians out of their homes had the specific imprimatur of the United States of America. Which means that it had my imprimatur.”
That it was complicated, he now understood, was “horseshit.” “Complicated” was how people had described slavery and then segregation. “It’s complicated,” he said, “when you want to take something from somebody.”

He talked about this a bit a few months ago in his final appearance on the now-defunct Longform podcast:
https://longform.org/posts/longform-podcast-584-ta-nehisi-coates

(I don't remember where in the episode it is, but the whole thing's a good listen if you like TNC.)

“It’s not like Arthur Sulzberger is rubbing his hands together” and dictating pro-Israeli coverage, Coates continued, noting that the Times had recently published a mammoth investigation into how Jewish extremists had taken over the Israeli state. It’s that in the total coverage, in all of the talk of experts and the sound bites of politicians and the dispatches of credentialed reporters, a sense of ambiguity is allowed to prevail. “The fact of the matter is,” he said, “that kid up at Columbia, whatever dumb shit they’re saying, whatever slogan I would not say that they would use, they are more morally correct than some motherfuckers that have won Pulitzer Prizes and National Magazine Awards and are the most decorated and powerful journalists.”

great article, even if ILX is never mentioned in it

Our work itself is the reward.

chait’s gotta be fuming

The woman who yelled at TNC is on twitter.

Wow, it turns out I played a role in pushing Ta-Nehisi Coates to look more deeply into Palestine.

I was the woman who yelled on the mic about Palestine and got shouted down at his event with Jeffrey Goldberg, it was at the Sixth & I synagogue in DC I think in 2014.

That was… pic.twitter.com/RcESBIbzNW

— Rania Khalek (@RaniaKhalek) September 24, 2024

lol she was yelling at dersh just yesterday

(i have her filed as kind of a grayzone-adjacent nuisance-stroke-menace but nuisance-stroke-menace can sometimes get good results, thats politics baby)

Just seen what Dershowitz is up to and...