well, the ABA certainly isn't going to push for it ... in fact, their accredidation standards are arguably one of the factors for law schools' tuition hikes over the years. on this and a zillion other things, the ABA may be the most useless guild/trade association ever.
― kurwa mać (Polish for "long life") (Eisbaer), Friday, 23 March 2012 21:26 (twelve years ago) link
also hurting OTM wr2 the mindset of old-school lawyers/judges wr2 younger lawyers and their debt loads/job problems.
― kurwa mać (Polish for "long life") (Eisbaer), Friday, 23 March 2012 21:27 (twelve years ago) link
I actually don't think the AMA comparison works. A partner in a law firm has an interest in a huge pool of potential associates.
― i don't believe in zimmerman (Hurting 2), Friday, March 23, 2012 4:20 PM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
idk, a small law firm in a small market does not benefit from the market being flooded, and a big law firm in a big market doesn't really have anything invested in how many students there are at nyls.
― iatee, Friday, 23 March 2012 21:27 (twelve years ago) link
The firms are going to lose their leverage if they start messing with big universities' credibility, is what I'm saying.
― Three Word Username, Friday, 23 March 2012 21:31 (twelve years ago) link
That isn't true, necessarily xpost. Discovery requires a huge supply of relatively cheap JD labor. Big firms, in fact, do rely on armies of NYLS graduates who work for them via contractors. And the more of those you have who are desperate for work, the better quality you get and the less you have to pay.
― i don't believe in zimmerman (Hurting 2), Friday, 23 March 2012 21:34 (twelve years ago) link
― Three Word Username, Friday, March 23, 2012 5:31 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
Oh I guess maybe at some point that becomes true. It's hard for me to think of a university right now whose law school's reputation is in danger of being enough degrees worse to drag it down.
― i don't believe in zimmerman (Hurting 2), Friday, 23 March 2012 21:35 (twelve years ago) link
graduates-lose-case-against-new-york-law-school
haha explains why they were they ones who didnt get jobs amirite
― Lamp, Friday, 23 March 2012 21:36 (twelve years ago) link
yeah I guess I wasn't thinking about that, tho I've gotten the sense that the work can eventually be automated xp
― iatee, Friday, 23 March 2012 21:36 (twelve years ago) link
There is early talk of something called "computer assisted document review" right now which might eliminate some of the need for some of the most basic document coding jobs. It sounds a little questionable to me unless they've invented AI and not told anyone.
― i don't believe in zimmerman (Hurting 2), Friday, 23 March 2012 21:40 (twelve years ago) link
people who don't care about this subject can't tell you what schools have good law schools anyway. there are relatively few schools w/ any sort of national prestige, and only some of them have law schools, and they're all schools that will survive the wildfire regardless.
xps
― iatee, Friday, 23 March 2012 21:41 (twelve years ago) link
What I suggest is not going to happen this year or next year, but the current crop of mid-level partners never saw the law firm life in the 80s and may not believe that the good times will come back -- so they might keep hiring levels low after a recovery (as their clients figured out in '02) -- and that would definitely force the issue.
― Three Word Username, Friday, 23 March 2012 21:41 (twelve years ago) link
So, cash cow gives no more green milk and people start bitching loudly about the credibility of the placement and financial aid departments: reform it or close it.
― Three Word Username, Friday, 23 March 2012 21:43 (twelve years ago) link
well the lawyer-population ratio today is unsustainably high regardless and regardless of doc review, various forms of legal automation will prob lower what the 'sustainable' lawyer-population ratio would be anyway
― iatee, Friday, 23 March 2012 21:44 (twelve years ago) link
besides lol "computer assisted document review," there's the specter of "old-school" document review being sent to India -- which is a much more real short-term threat than automated.
― kurwa mać (Polish for "long life") (Eisbaer), Friday, 23 March 2012 21:45 (twelve years ago) link
and of course there's good old legalzoom.com -- if you REALLY want to see small firm/solos go ballistic, mention that name and break out the popcorn.
― kurwa mać (Polish for "long life") (Eisbaer), Friday, 23 March 2012 21:46 (twelve years ago) link
yeah thats what I meant w/ various forms of automation
― iatee, Friday, 23 March 2012 21:47 (twelve years ago) link
fwiw, i know of no small number of litigators who are smacking their lips in anticipation of the massive anticipated legal clusterfucks from the cheapskates who used legalzoom for whatever reason.
― kurwa mać (Polish for "long life") (Eisbaer), Friday, 23 March 2012 21:49 (twelve years ago) link
I'm planning on using siri as my lawyer if I ever go to court
― iatee, Friday, 23 March 2012 21:51 (twelve years ago) link
lame brag, but I kind of feel like I "leveled up" at work today. Busted my ass on a really hard assignment, got an understated "I thought it was good" from a partner who is usually critical, and then got a new challenging assignment from partners I haven't worked for before.
― i don't believe in zimmerman (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 28 March 2012 21:00 (twelve years ago) link
Holy fuck am I glad to be out of that world. I tease you, Hurting, but I am sincerely grateful for your posts for reminding that quitting the practice of law was absolutely the right decision. So here's some heartfelt advice: read what you just posted and ask yourself if that's who you want to be.
― Three Word Username, Wednesday, 28 March 2012 21:04 (twelve years ago) link
hurting's post could refer to any career in the world, not sure why he should be bummed that he felt useful at work just cuz he happens to be a lawyer
― iatee, Wednesday, 28 March 2012 21:06 (twelve years ago) link
The Freudian drama of law firm life -- the desperate longing for approval, the holding on to the meaningless "I thought it was good", the reward being a challenging new assignment -- it's all there, and it's all crap, and no grown person should put themselves through it. But highly-paid young lawyers do, AND IT NEVER STOPS.
― Three Word Username, Wednesday, 28 March 2012 21:22 (twelve years ago) link
i never feel useful at work!
― kim tim jim investor (harbl), Wednesday, 28 March 2012 21:30 (twelve years ago) link
and that's different from most other professional jobs exactly how?!?
― kurwa mać (Polish for "long life") (Eisbaer), Wednesday, 28 March 2012 21:42 (twelve years ago) link
― Three Word Username, Wednesday, March 28, 2012 4:22 PM (20 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
idk this just seems like 'having a job' xp
― iatee, Wednesday, 28 March 2012 21:43 (twelve years ago) link
I was gonna say, that sounds like life at an established software company
― THIS TRADE SERVES ZERO FOOTBALL PURPOSE (DJP), Wednesday, 28 March 2012 21:44 (twelve years ago) link
are you sure you're not a lawyer?? how sure
― iatee, Wednesday, 28 March 2012 21:44 (twelve years ago) link
ironically, I write document review software
― THIS TRADE SERVES ZERO FOOTBALL PURPOSE (DJP), Wednesday, 28 March 2012 21:45 (twelve years ago) link
Dan is an ILX board lawyer ...
― kurwa mać (Polish for "long life") (Eisbaer), Wednesday, 28 March 2012 21:47 (twelve years ago) link
― Three Word Username, Wednesday, March 28, 2012 5:22 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
IDK, I used to think like this too, but I had years and years before law school of pretty much total autonomy. Easy job that paid the bills, tons of free time, and I didn't do jack shit with it for at least a few of those years. Plus, when I think about it, being in a band had elements of the same thing to it -- stranger went out of his way to tell us "great show," stranger bought our CD, college radio station played our song, crap local newspaper mentioned us, legit secondary city alt-weekly made our show a "pick" for the week, we get to open for x, we get to open for x^2, etc. Yeah, it's all meaningless approval but I get pretty bored without it.
At least this approval might translate to a raise.
― i don't believe in zimmerman (Hurting 2), Friday, 30 March 2012 04:18 (twelve years ago) link
I should add, though, that this is at a relatively small firm where I get to do very interesting and challenging work. I'm not this guy:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_auFicUWK4
― i don't believe in zimmerman (Hurting 2), Friday, 30 March 2012 16:08 (twelve years ago) link
http://nymag.com/daily/intel/2012/03/new-technology-may-spell-doom-for-new-lawyers.html
― iatee, Friday, 4 May 2012 20:39 (twelve years ago) link
I swear that I had the exact same idea for my own law school about a year ago and strongly considered suggesting it to the dean:
http://www.usatoday.com/news/education/story/2012-05-01/hastings-law-school-admissions/54662710/1
― this guy's a gangsta? his real name's mittens. (Hurting 2), Monday, 21 May 2012 15:40 (twelve years ago) link
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702304458604577486623469958142.html?mod=WSJ_hp_editorsPicks_1
upshot: grads of my class year had a 50/50 shot at actually working as a lawyer within 9 months of graduation.
― click here if you want to load them all (Hurting 2), Monday, 25 June 2012 14:57 (eleven years ago) link
http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/07/16/the-toppling-of-top-tier-lawyer-jobs/?hp
― iatee, Monday, 16 July 2012 22:46 (eleven years ago) link
Was hoping thread title would be a new Mountain Goats song.
― to welcome jer.fairall, pie is served. (jer.fairall), Monday, 16 July 2012 22:50 (eleven years ago) link
now that i'm a little less depressed i'm looking back on my law school career and realizing i had the potential to be a good lawyer. i mean, i won every hearing i argued in court (some of them called 'hopeless' by my supervisors and one of whom got pretty snarky that i actually won) so i must've had some aptitude for it. i've effortlessy destroyed key witnesses, got people $$$ on technicalities, and came up with strategies minutes before argument and on-the-fly which actually worked! i even scored some As despite being in a chemically-induced coma the entire run.
at this point i'm not sure i could even get back in the game being close to 2 years out with no further legal experience. the only thing i found fun about it was arguing in court or writing heavy evidence-based briefs (not any of that statute this, statute that kinda crap) but the matters involved are always miserable as fuck and the clients were a pain in the ass. oh well, not sure this comment has any point outside public self confession.
― Spectrum, Wednesday, 30 January 2013 18:13 (eleven years ago) link
damn, i remember one time when one judge's jaw dropped after my closing argument ... new shit just kept flying through my head. ah well! i'm gainfully employed anyway. i doubt doing personal injury or some shit like that would've been all that great.
― Spectrum, Wednesday, 30 January 2013 18:23 (eleven years ago) link
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/18/opinion/practicing-law-should-not-mean-living-in-bankruptcy.html
― iatee, Wednesday, 30 January 2013 22:18 (eleven years ago) link
the matters involved are always miserable as fuck and the clients were a pain in the ass
this is law
― veryupsetmom (harbl), Wednesday, 30 January 2013 23:47 (eleven years ago) link
I spoke in court for the first time today! It basically amounted to "Your Honor, I'm Hurting of the lawfirm Lol Waht Roffle LLP, and with me is David Ilxor, whose pro hac admission is pending before this court. He will be speaking for--"
Judge cuts me off and starts talking, pro hac dude does the rest.
― space phwoar (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 30 January 2013 23:55 (eleven years ago) link
New York State Court is weird. We were sitting across the table from the judge, who dealt with us conversationally and was not wearing a robe.
― space phwoar (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 30 January 2013 23:56 (eleven years ago) link
i think the first thing judges swear to do is to make everyone look and feel stupid
― veryupsetmom (harbl), Wednesday, 30 January 2013 23:57 (eleven years ago) link
http://www.grandtetonlaw.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/stantonlogo.jpg
― buzza, Thursday, 31 January 2013 00:00 (eleven years ago) link
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51AMD6VJ8XL.jpg
― Spectrum, Thursday, 31 January 2013 00:14 (eleven years ago) link
haha
― iatee, Thursday, 31 January 2013 00:15 (eleven years ago) link
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/31/education/law-schools-applications-fall-as-costs-rise-and-jobs-are-cut.html
http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2013/01/31/education/31lawschool-webgraphic/31lawschool-webgraphic-popup.gif
― iatee, Thursday, 31 January 2013 16:07 (eleven years ago) link
Indiana Tech's new law school in Fort Wayne will be the state's fifth when it opens this fall. The law school the University of North Texas plans to open in Dallas next year will be just down the road from Southern Methodist University's Dedman School of Law, and less than an hour's drive from one in Fort Worth that Texas A&M University is in the process of buying from Texas Wesleyan University, one of nine in the state.
― buzza, Friday, 1 February 2013 02:52 (eleven years ago) link
Damn. It was a motherfucking decade ago that I was getting ready to go to law school.
Damn.
What's going on with y'all?
― Sleep Deprivation Thriver (B.L.A.M.), Friday, 1 February 2013 05:22 (eleven years ago) link