What is considered a "fat girl" these days? I really want to know.

http://www1.umn.edu/umnnews/img/assets/4243/ex_040616_roman_warrior.jpg

I guess it doesn't look anything like the one that momus posted. I was remembering it darker and smoother.

I agree with Dog Latin, C-Man and JW working in tandem was the last thing I wanted to witness too.

http://www.fatchicksinpartyhats.com

Calum's made several good points here, though I can't take issue about the double standards for ass-patting/pinching among strangers in public. Women are much less likely to be potential physical threat to men than vice versa.

Also, there are examples of non-leggy supermodel types who've become sex symbols. Christina Ricci is one. Janeane Garafolo is another. And in the softcore b-movie universe possibly the most popular actress going right now is the very curvy, "regular girl with a pretty face" Misty Mundae.

You may be right, but it's all a question of chicken or egg, meaning that "many women" wouldn't say such things if they hadn't learned (implicitly or explicitly) how a women "should" look from childhood on. That of course doesn't make mean comments any more acceptable.

Calum's made several good points here, though I can't take issue about the double standards for ass-patting/pinching among strangers in public. Women are much less likely to be potential physical threat to men than vice versa.

Yeah, I agree that there are a lot of double standards. For example, I've noticed that in certain "enlightened" leftist/indie/whatever circles (at least here in Finland) there isn't that much pressure for women to be thin, but there are such pressures for men. Most of my female friends don't have that a big issue with their weight, but I know several guys who do. Male anorexia has been getting more common, a good friend of mine used to suffer from it.

However, I think sometimes drawing attention to such doudle standards isn't done only out of genuine concern, but also as a sort of a backlash against feminist thought. At times I feel like this about C-Man's comments. I'm not saying these aren't serious problems; it is true that issues like women's violence towards men or weight pressures on guys have been pretty much invisible until the last few years, because such things aren't supposed to happen to men. However, an argument like: "Yeah, everyone talks about women's issues, but how about the pressures on men, no one pays attention to that!" can be used to muddle the truth. Yes, men suffer from gender-related pressures and expectations too, and attention should be paid to that, but that doesn't change the fact that such problems are a hundred times worse for women.

(Sorry, this wasn't directed against you, just clearing my thoughts.)

I think Christina Ricci is an attractive girl too. Women, like men, come in all shapes and sizes (I'm judging obesity here which I don't think many men or women find attractive. Ricci is still slim, I would say...) although in my experience I have found women to be as judgemental as men.

Anyway, as long as rich, ugly/ old men like Hugh Hefner dance around with 7 slim young girlfriends can anyone really take many of the comments here seriously? I don't see 7 six packed men running around with a 70 year old millionaire.

and try making a woman jealous of another woman. the first thing most of them will say against the other woman is that she's fat or ugly.

men don't care what other men think. at least not about looks. if we aren't interested in sleeping with you then we don't care what you think of our appearance.

the way i see it:
most women = brutally insecure about their looks. especially the MOST attractive ones, oddly enough.

most men = completely in love with themselves, maybe delusionally so.

if women are competitive with each other over attrativeness, men are competitive with each other over money.

Also, while you may have a point, you're making generalisations too. You should always be wary of talking of "women" or "men", as if what you're saying applies to all members of a certain gender.

who's going to save the world from being saved by mark c?

etc...

you got this from TV

I think huge bums are a turn off in a girl.

Like that's going to help at ALL!!!!!@!@!

http://www.sweetnlow.com/images/home/prod_packets.gif

http://www.rosiesamfrodo.com/users/grate/legolas.jpg

But C-Man, you seem to expect some kind of appplause for stating this before us, ad fricken nauseum, like you're keening for some approval of your pret a porter masculinity...

was this violent vic, or just a guy named vic?

Too early for Calum

Great thread.