omg subtitled gif even greater than I hoped
― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Wednesday, 23 May 2012 21:48 (twelve years ago) link
hare krishnas was hilar
― littledotheyknow (D-40), Wednesday, 23 May 2012 21:52 (twelve years ago) link
Weiner, Gilligan, and Milch talk about TV: http://www.gq.com/entertainment/movies-and-tv/201206/roundtable-discussion-matthew-weiner-vince-gilligan-david-milch?currentPage=1
― Fas Ro Duh (Gukbe), Wednesday, 23 May 2012 22:47 (twelve years ago) link
i hope that's a convincing interview!
― littledotheyknow (D-40), Wednesday, 23 May 2012 23:05 (twelve years ago) link
hare krishnas was sort of dumb, but not out of character for this show to do something for the lols. it doesn't take itself very seriously at all, least of all this season. it is 100% soap opera now.
― ooooiiiioooooooooooooooaaaaaaaaoooooh un - bi - leevable! (LocalGarda), Wednesday, 23 May 2012 23:13 (twelve years ago) link
lol what was it before
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 23 May 2012 23:16 (twelve years ago) link
back to the soap opera thing zzzzzzzzzz
― Fas Ro Duh (Gukbe), Wednesday, 23 May 2012 23:19 (twelve years ago) link
it's always been a soap opera. just with clothes and furniture that you covet.
― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Wednesday, 23 May 2012 23:20 (twelve years ago) link
^^^
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 23 May 2012 23:22 (twelve years ago) link
Gukbe otm
― raw feel vegan (silby), Wednesday, 23 May 2012 23:24 (twelve years ago) link
i think the better word is "melodrama"
― ryan, Wednesday, 23 May 2012 23:29 (twelve years ago) link
weird - what is that doing there?
It's a famous building. DC Comics was there for a long tiem.
― seven league bootie (James Morrison), Thursday, 24 May 2012 00:25 (twelve years ago) link
that's what I was wondering, whether they were in the same building as DC comics!
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 24 May 2012 00:49 (twelve years ago) link
a) the building would have to be several blocks long and turn a corner if so
b) DC didn't move there 'til the 80s
― ┗|∵|┓ (sic), Thursday, 24 May 2012 01:05 (twelve years ago) link
loved this episode! Christina Hendricks is a GREAT actress! Love her and Don!
Harry was ALMOST likeable. But not quite.
― homosexual II, Thursday, 24 May 2012 01:31 (twelve years ago) link
Ya know, Harry probably got some weird VD from that Krishna chick.
Also omg: he's fixing to be a dad AGAIN.
― Hare Kinsey (C. Grisso/McCain), Thursday, 24 May 2012 01:52 (twelve years ago) link
I kind of loved that Harry actually got into the chanting, that made me happy - like hooray there's hope for him somewhere in his meek existence, lol
― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Thursday, 24 May 2012 02:06 (twelve years ago) link
from that GQ piece, so good that I had to share somewhere:
GQ: Given all the time in the world, would you choose to work this way on your shows, or would you prefer to write everything yourself?David Milch: That's a good one. All the time in the world? The "B" answer is, I'd write it all myself. Which is to say that in my vanity and egoism, I would think that that would be the way to proceed. And I know deep down that the better answer is: Even having all the time in the world, it's better to collaborate with your brothers and sisters. It's ultimately the richest experience. But there's a kind of intolerant economy that happens: "Just let me do the fucking thing myself."
David Milch: That's a good one. All the time in the world? The "B" answer is, I'd write it all myself. Which is to say that in my vanity and egoism, I would think that that would be the way to proceed. And I know deep down that the better answer is: Even having all the time in the world, it's better to collaborate with your brothers and sisters. It's ultimately the richest experience. But there's a kind of intolerant economy that happens: "Just let me do the fucking thing myself."
― Mordy, Thursday, 24 May 2012 02:29 (twelve years ago) link
this series *started* as soap opera. seriously ppl.
― s.clover, Thursday, 24 May 2012 04:29 (twelve years ago) link
i think people are operating with different definitions of "soap opera" and thus are talking past one another. what's your definition?
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Thursday, 24 May 2012 06:07 (twelve years ago) link
I don't think the guy from the Sopranos was trying to make the next Passions.
― polyphonic, Thursday, 24 May 2012 06:09 (twelve years ago) link
we've already been through this several times.
― Fas Ro Duh (Gukbe), Thursday, 24 May 2012 06:13 (twelve years ago) link
Yeah it always has been soap but definitely had more ongoing serial arch in past seasons. This season could go on forever, so sparse is the plot.
― ooooiiiioooooooooooooooaaaaaaaaoooooh un - bi - leevable! (LocalGarda), Thursday, 24 May 2012 06:14 (twelve years ago) link
Arc* not arch
― ooooiiiioooooooooooooooaaaaaaaaoooooh un - bi - leevable! (LocalGarda), Thursday, 24 May 2012 06:15 (twelve years ago) link
I don't remember us actually discussing in this in depth even if I know people have said the show is a soap opera a lot.
― ooooiiiioooooooooooooooaaaaaaaaoooooh un - bi - leevable! (LocalGarda), Thursday, 24 May 2012 06:19 (twelve years ago) link
Maybe it was previous seasons. It's a *thing*.
― Fas Ro Duh (Gukbe), Thursday, 24 May 2012 06:23 (twelve years ago) link
this season is def the least soap-opera-y it's been, which I'm not sure I like. But like, say in the first season, all that suburban housewife/cheating husband/peggy pregnant stuff, TOTALLY soap opera
― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Thursday, 24 May 2012 06:25 (twelve years ago) link
hell the overall arc is STOLEN IDENTITY
classic soap opera
― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Thursday, 24 May 2012 06:26 (twelve years ago) link
The general disagreements tend to be what is "soap opera" and what is just "plot".
― Fas Ro Duh (Gukbe), Thursday, 24 May 2012 06:26 (twelve years ago) link
soap opera: intriguing story arcs over many episodes iirc?
― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Thursday, 24 May 2012 06:31 (twelve years ago) link
so basically every serial drama then
― polyphonic, Thursday, 24 May 2012 06:33 (twelve years ago) link
yeah, but then The Wire, Deadwood, Breaking Bad, The Sopranos, Buffy, et al would be soap operas.
There's a pejorative connotation to the term that I don't think everyone is meaning, but it can sometimes be interpreted that way. Soap Operas are really any show with continuing threads, except the shows are never meant to end. It's become known (see the Passions reference above) as a string of Outlandish Plot Devices to keep people watching (and because of the amount of episodes that are produced, lack of constant innovation).
― Fas Ro Duh (Gukbe), Thursday, 24 May 2012 06:36 (twelve years ago) link
So Peggy being pregnant in the first season, for me, isn't soap opera. It would be if she were dating Pete and then Don barged in and said "that baby is MINE!".
― Fas Ro Duh (Gukbe), Thursday, 24 May 2012 06:37 (twelve years ago) link
I'm not at all talking about Soap Operas disparagingly, for the record. I've only ever meant it as a genre, and honestly I always enjoyed that given the time period that it DID have that soap-opera quality to the storylines, it felt kind of meta in a weird way.
maybe people are more invested in the show and want it to be a Drama, doesn't really bother me either way. But I've always viewed it as a soap-opera.
― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Thursday, 24 May 2012 06:40 (twelve years ago) link
Peggy gets pregnant to an ambitious up-and-comer and has a secret abortion and the only person who knows about it is Don Draper, super-executive.
there doesn't have to be barging through doors and j'accuse! standoffs for that to be soap-opera.
― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Thursday, 24 May 2012 06:41 (twelve years ago) link
Remarkably little happens in terms of overall plot in any given episode of Mad Men, which is why it strikes me as funny that people are quick to shout "Soap Opera". The show has the identity theft hanging over it, or at least it did for a few seasons, but really it was about personal reinvention in America, which is basically the same idea as in The Great Gatsby, and that's surely not a soap opera.
If you take a step back and say "Joan was raped by her fiancee and then he went off to war and while he was off to war her ex-lover and boss had sex and then she got pregnant but she's pretending its her now-ex-husband's baby", then yes, it seems pretty soap opera-y. But it's never presented in that fantastical, DUN-DUN-DUUUUNNNN way.
― Fas Ro Duh (Gukbe), Thursday, 24 May 2012 06:41 (twelve years ago) link
I have watched an embarrassing amount of actual soap operas. The way Mad Men is shot, written, acted, researched, costumed, etc. etc. is very different.
― polyphonic, Thursday, 24 May 2012 06:41 (twelve years ago) link
And Romeo falls in love with a rival family member, whose cousin kills his best friend, and then he kills that cousin, and then he goes on the run only to come back when he thinks his love has killed herself so he kills himself not realising that she didn't ACTUALLY kill herself.
― Fas Ro Duh (Gukbe), Thursday, 24 May 2012 06:43 (twelve years ago) link
A huge number of stories in any medium, when summed up to their bare essentials, can be seen as soap opera.
I know you're not meaning it in a pejorative Veg, btw.
― Fas Ro Duh (Gukbe), Thursday, 24 May 2012 06:44 (twelve years ago) link
Well, like I said, it always felt soap opera to me. And I do very much like soap operas and enjoyed them an awful lot at an earlier point in my life (Young and the Restless, Days, Bold)My feeling was with Mad Men they just snuck the soap opera in the back door with all that meaningful staring out windows and cool clothes and furniture porn
― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Thursday, 24 May 2012 06:46 (twelve years ago) link
They let you THINK nothing's happening and meanwhile you're slowly, veeerrrrrrrrrrrrrrry slowly being indoctrinated into SOAP OPERA VIEWING dun dun
:D
― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Thursday, 24 May 2012 06:47 (twelve years ago) link
Soap Operas are really any show with continuing threads, except the shows are never meant to end.
No, that's way too broad a definition! Soap operas get their name from serial programs (first radio, then tv) that were targeted at women. They have many of the elements of classic melodrama (the stuff Adorno hated because he felt that it was an opiate of the masses). Plots revolve around domestic issues: relationships and families, mainly.
― sarahell, Thursday, 24 May 2012 06:55 (twelve years ago) link
I did a course on soap operas and it was defined differently, though you're right about its origins. UK soaps v US soaps are way different though.
― Fas Ro Duh (Gukbe), Thursday, 24 May 2012 06:57 (twelve years ago) link
And Mad Men shares a lot of those elements - like it's 75% soap opera.
― sarahell, Thursday, 24 May 2012 06:58 (twelve years ago) link
The main difference I noticed between UK soaps v US soaps is that the characters/plots of the UK soaps revolved more around the working/lower-middle class, whereas US soaps tended to portray wealthy powerful people.
― sarahell, Thursday, 24 May 2012 07:00 (twelve years ago) link
And it's weird to have people on this thread saying "soap opera" is not a pejorative, when the term, from its inception, was a pejorative. I'd prefer, for the sake of those origins and connotations to refer to it as melodrama.
― sarahell, Thursday, 24 May 2012 07:02 (twelve years ago) link
True, but UK soaps tend to be grounded in a more plausible 'reality', whereas US soaps want the fantastical absurdity.
― Fas Ro Duh (Gukbe), Thursday, 24 May 2012 07:02 (twelve years ago) link
I'm more willing to accept "melodrama", though I really don't think Mad Men has the heightened quality I associate with it.
― Fas Ro Duh (Gukbe), Thursday, 24 May 2012 07:03 (twelve years ago) link
But the main focus in the UK, just as in the US, is on families and relationships, right?
― sarahell, Thursday, 24 May 2012 07:05 (twelve years ago) link