Well, yeah, I understand there are all sorts of reasons to act out, and it really doesn't matter - I pretty much loved the movie - but I did wonder if it could be better.It's just a little unbalanced. He's a quirky (if confident) clear outsider, with, yes, multiple and quantifiable psychological issues. But she's just acting out, which of course includes attacking people - maybe she's just crazy? Anyway, that's why I said the movie didn't need to be changed, necessarily. Just something, some beat, to give her behavior some direction.
The problem, I suppose, with Wes Anderson World, is that it's almost implied his characters have been like they'v been for years (think: Royal Tennenbaums); they don't really change. So it's weird, in the context of this film and how it is written, to think there is a Before Suzy and an After Suzy. In Wes Anderson World, she's been listening to French pop since diapers.
― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 28 June 2012 15:33 (eleven years ago) link
i think the peanuts analogy is really illuminating. why is charlie brown so depressed? what tragedy happened in his life to make him this way? we don't know, and maybe there's nothing. after all, anderson seems to constantly be suggesting that all humans are damaged in some way or another, and maybe the explanation matters less than the damage it left. sometimes that information is included on the registration profile (or whatever it was that Ed Norton kept referencing) and sometimes it isn't and you just have a damaged person and it's unclear why.
― Mordy, Thursday, 28 June 2012 15:38 (eleven years ago) link
what i mean to say is that leaving it ambiguous worked for me - i found it relatable
― Mordy, Thursday, 28 June 2012 15:39 (eleven years ago) link
well, she's a fantasy love object, and anderson's films are often about the outsider's desire for the trappings of wealth. suzy's a rebellious rich girl: pretty, weird, smart & malleable (not just in the boob area). the fact that she's down with sam's rebellion is pretty much a given.
xp to josh in chicago
― contenderizer, Thursday, 28 June 2012 15:41 (eleven years ago) link
i thought the kids' behaviour was anti-social because they are the true lovers in a cruel unfeeling world (that includes electro-therapy)
― carly rae (flopson), Thursday, 28 June 2012 15:42 (eleven years ago) link
i disagree about 'fantasy love object' analysis 100% xp
― Mordy, Thursday, 28 June 2012 15:43 (eleven years ago) link
I think part of the reason the girl was acting out was because her parents are weirdos who don't seem to be in love and her mom's hooking up with the nice policeman?
― mh, Thursday, 28 June 2012 15:43 (eleven years ago) link
I just wish there were a tiny beat or two more indicated what drove her into the arms of the kid. She's much, much angrier than he is, so I wish there was ... something. I agree it's easy to overlook. BTW, all that stuff on the roof at the end was really striking.
Charlie Brown is depressed because he likes that girl, he can't kick the football, his dog is cooler than he is and he got a bag of rocks for Halloween.
― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 28 June 2012 16:17 (eleven years ago) link
Charlie Brown is depressed because that is his natural state, good grief
― mh, Thursday, 28 June 2012 16:46 (eleven years ago) link
plus everybody's always pickin on him
― contenderizer, Thursday, 28 June 2012 17:10 (eleven years ago) link
I suspect CB suffers from IBS.
― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 28 June 2012 17:33 (eleven years ago) link
I keep wanting to call this movie "Moonage Dream." I wonder if that's where the idea for the title came from, now that I think about it.
― Cunga, Friday, 29 June 2012 20:50 (eleven years ago) link
it's hard to know what's the chicken and what's the egg w/ charlie brown, is he made fun of because he's a stick in the mud or is he a stick in the mud because he's always being made fun of?
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Friday, 29 June 2012 23:25 (eleven years ago) link
http://www.matadorrecords.com/matablog/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/harvey_head_big.jpg
I liked this but not much more than Rushmore or FMF. The script ran out of ideas in the last ten minutes (i.e. let's gather all the characters in a central location for a final time, for another climax).
― a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 30 June 2012 17:37 (eleven years ago) link
fmf is way better imo, feels so full of ideas & jokes and characters compared to this
― carly rae (flopson), Saturday, 30 June 2012 17:39 (eleven years ago) link
the dance scene on the beach reminded me of Pierrot le Fou
― a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 30 June 2012 17:50 (eleven years ago) link
"FMF" is so good.
― Josh in Chicago, Saturday, 30 June 2012 18:20 (eleven years ago) link
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-WpvgDgqTvdQ/Tyd9QqvWytI/AAAAAAAAAZw/jErSooKJdnI/s1600/wolf:fox+.jpg
― Josh in Chicago, Saturday, 30 June 2012 18:21 (eleven years ago) link
There's Pierrot stuff all over this one (the scissors scene being another great example).
Caught this last night. This & FMF best 1-2 Anderson punch since his first two. Old people behind me thought Schwartzman was Sacha Baron Cohen. Young women next to me not ready for topless Bill Murray.
― Electro-Shock Rory (C. Grisso/McCain), Saturday, 30 June 2012 18:45 (eleven years ago) link
― a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, June 30, 2012 12:37 PM (3 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
there's some truth in this. the worst offender is life aquatic, where there are like eight climaxes all involving a grouping of nearly the entire cast.
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Saturday, 30 June 2012 21:44 (eleven years ago) link
― a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, June 30, 2012 12:50 PM (3 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
i'm 99% sure this was 100% intentional.
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Saturday, 30 June 2012 21:45 (eleven years ago) link
and if it wasn't Anderson has to refine his methods.
― a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 30 June 2012 21:51 (eleven years ago) link
is it just me, or has he gotten a lot worse at achieving seamless tonal shifts? the murray/mcdormand marriage stuff felt kind of jarring in the context of the rest of the movie. especially as compared to tennenbaums, where he was able to glide back and forth between deadpan hilarity and much darker territory without creating any sense of disjointedness.
― buh, Monday, 2 July 2012 00:38 (eleven years ago) link
idk i remember something with an Elliott Smith song that was pretty jarring but it probably was supposed to be
― Fas Ro Duh (Gukbe), Monday, 2 July 2012 00:45 (eleven years ago) link
It was jarring because it was an injection of a contemporary song.
I think it's important not to overlook having Owen Wilson as your writing partner vs. Roman Coppola or Noah Baumbach, both of whom have been hit or miss vs. Wilson. Though again, this and "Fantastic Mr. Fox" were pretty great, which sort of redeems those two vs. Wilson.
― Josh in Chicago, Monday, 2 July 2012 00:46 (eleven years ago) link
i don't think it's been overlooked
― Number None, Monday, 2 July 2012 00:56 (eleven years ago) link
i must have missed all the ideas and jokes FMF was apparently brimming with
― Black_vegeta (Hungry4Ass), Monday, 2 July 2012 01:07 (eleven years ago) link
Huh? That movie is brimming with ideas and jokes!
― Josh in Chicago, Monday, 2 July 2012 01:09 (eleven years ago) link
bad ideas and unfunny jokes
― Black_vegeta (Hungry4Ass), Monday, 2 July 2012 01:13 (eleven years ago) link
this wasn't a bad movie at all
― puff puff post (uh oh I'm having a fantasy), Monday, 2 July 2012 01:33 (eleven years ago) link
fmf sucked
― puff puff post (uh oh I'm having a fantasy), Monday, 2 July 2012 01:34 (eleven years ago) link
I prefer talking foxes to arch adults
― a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 2 July 2012 01:36 (eleven years ago) link
otm
― buh, Monday, 2 July 2012 01:41 (eleven years ago) link
argh started reading thread but SPOILERS but s'ok, only got halfway through one sentence and scrolled down quickly.
i have never ever understood why people don't appreciate the life aquatic for the subtle, layered, bittersweetly ridiculous comic genius that it is. one of murray's best rolls, all time.
― messiahwannabe, Monday, 2 July 2012 12:07 (eleven years ago) link
not to mention willem dafoe
― messiahwannabe, Monday, 2 July 2012 12:08 (eleven years ago) link
because it's just awful
― caek, Monday, 2 July 2012 12:11 (eleven years ago) link
If you like The Life Aquatic at all your opinion cannot be trusted
― Number None, Monday, 2 July 2012 12:16 (eleven years ago) link
another one of bill murray's best rolls, all time:
http://i.cdn.turner.com/dr/golf/www/release/sites/default/files/imagecache/node-gallery-display/gallery_images/murraysandwich_1000.JPG
― Ward Fowler, Monday, 2 July 2012 12:31 (eleven years ago) link
Where does this Life Aquatic film hate come from? I really don't see it as being significantly better or worse than his other films. Maybe it's the weakest link or something, but really, what about it makes it stand out as SO BAD?
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Monday, 2 July 2012 12:37 (eleven years ago) link
this picture sums it up
http://kpnv.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/zissou-rom.jpg
― Number None, Monday, 2 July 2012 12:39 (eleven years ago) link
no you're right, i don't think it was bad in qualitatively different way, it was just him being so much more wes anderson than in any of the others
rushmore > bottle rocket > tenenbaums > darjeeling > moonrise >> aquatic
xp loool
― caek, Monday, 2 July 2012 12:41 (eleven years ago) link
I think the hate springs from Murray's beret and its color.
― a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 2 July 2012 12:42 (eleven years ago) link
if find the "he needs owen wilson" back thing plausible, but is any of it based on anything more than "the good movies had owen wilson therefore..." correlation implying causation?
― caek, Monday, 2 July 2012 12:42 (eleven years ago) link
for me its based on - new wes isnt funny, owen's funny, therefore need owen.
― just sayin, Monday, 2 July 2012 12:44 (eleven years ago) link
this article does some speculating
http://www.slate.com/articles/arts/dvdextras/2005/07/the_o_factor.html
― Number None, Monday, 2 July 2012 12:46 (eleven years ago) link
i have found anderson's slippage into tics + mannerisms to be beautiful and even writerly. there's a certain hallowedness + stillness + meditation to moonrise whose genesis imo occurs in life aquatic (hated darjeeling) and i've found his distance from naturalism (which he's obv always found uncomfortable) to be more + more interesting. i suspect this accounts for the massive distance between the films i love by anderson (primarily these later ones) and the ones other ppl like. thought it wasn't a coincidence that the penultimate scenes of moonrise occur at a church, the two lightning strikes from heaven, etc. more stately than realistic.
maybe unrelated that credit card commercial was a big mistake since it kinda exposed how apolitical some of his homage artifice was (he can even pan the camera for Mastercard!), and cheapened some of the tricks.
― Mordy, Monday, 2 July 2012 12:54 (eleven years ago) link
See the tics and mannerisms are just part of the WA package for me. I remember seeing the trailer for Rushmore and thinking "Holy crap they are playing the live "A Quick One" from the 1968 Rock n Roll Circus and look at how weird and symmetrical everything is! This is going to rule!"
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Monday, 2 July 2012 15:22 (eleven years ago) link
I like to think that he's just doing his thing and this recognizable quality is what the ad producers snagged him for, so a) this is the cost of doing business in hollywood/tvland, and b) he's making mad cash so he can make weirder less "likeable" movies. I am an optimist obv!
― obliquity of the ecliptic (rrrobyn), Monday, 2 July 2012 15:29 (eleven years ago) link
He also did that commercial before making one movie in India and another entirely with stop motion.
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Monday, 2 July 2012 15:38 (eleven years ago) link