Spielberg & Kushner's Munich '72 / Israeli vengeance film

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strongo pretty otm about the ending... it shoulda just stopped earlier

― s1ocki (slutsky), Monday, 26 December 2005 22:46 (eighteen years ago) link

yeah there were about five points where i was like..."now!"

― u saved me (dubplatestyle), Monday, 26 December 2005 22:47 (eighteen years ago) link

except ironically if it had ended at any of those five points it woulda felt like a flat ending too.

― u saved me (dubplatestyle), Monday, 26 December 2005 22:48 (eighteen years ago) link

That sex/violence intercutting at the end is even worse than everybody's been saying. And you don't even get to see Eric Bana's ass.

There were a few good moments here and there--the confrontation in the safe house in Athens was pretty hot. Well, till they got to the bit with the radio. Spielberg always fucks it up, doesn't he? I liked all the actors, though.

I saw Pat O'Brien waiting for popcorn at the theatre.

― Gogi Ormsby-Gore (Arthur), Monday, 26 December 2005 22:51 (eighteen years ago) link

also: eric bana looks like a very elongated corey feldman

also two: whoever played his wife, fucking hot

― u saved me (dubplatestyle), Monday, 26 December 2005 22:52 (eighteen years ago) link

haha i would have kinda liked to see oliver stone direct this

― u saved me (dubplatestyle), Monday, 26 December 2005 22:53 (eighteen years ago) link

hands up who expected to ever see pregnant fucking in a spielberg movie

― s1ocki (slutsky), Monday, 26 December 2005 22:56 (eighteen years ago) link

man the photography is this really knocked me out... i'd always been pretty ambivalent as far as kaminski's stuff went... but wow.

― s1ocki (slutsky), Monday, 26 December 2005 22:57 (eighteen years ago) link

thankfully he didn't rock any of that blown-out blue-steel bs.

― s1ocki (slutsky), Monday, 26 December 2005 22:57 (eighteen years ago) link

was traffic's real legacy making everyone sick of all that blue?

― s1ocki (slutsky), Monday, 26 December 2005 22:58 (eighteen years ago) link

i gotta admit there were a couple shots in there that kinda made me go "wow" under my breath

― u saved me (dubplatestyle), Monday, 26 December 2005 22:58 (eighteen years ago) link

i like spielberg, but then i am a big cornball.

― u saved me (dubplatestyle), Monday, 26 December 2005 22:59 (eighteen years ago) link

i am glad he exists, because i am glad movies like this can be made on that kinda budget, and can get to the 14 multi-plex, and that people will actually go see them.

― u saved me (dubplatestyle), Monday, 26 December 2005 23:00 (eighteen years ago) link

god, the previews beforehand really hammered home the fact that, yes, i am about to watch a movie about israel/palestine in a mall with a tgifriday's attached to it.

― u saved me (dubplatestyle), Monday, 26 December 2005 23:01 (eighteen years ago) link

american dreamz...wtf?!

― u saved me (dubplatestyle), Monday, 26 December 2005 23:01 (eighteen years ago) link

totally! and well... dude has skills! on display!

― s1ocki (slutsky), Monday, 26 December 2005 23:02 (eighteen years ago) link

i also never really expected spielberg of all people to make a movie where the final note is more or less "israel... not so much."

― s1ocki (slutsky), Monday, 26 December 2005 23:03 (eighteen years ago) link

it's kinda the anti-saving private ryan in that way

― s1ocki (slutsky), Monday, 26 December 2005 23:03 (eighteen years ago) link

between this, the chinese food, and the crushing guilt from my mother, i had a very jewish christmas this year.

― u saved me (dubplatestyle), Monday, 26 December 2005 23:04 (eighteen years ago) link

that's a good quote for the print ad!

― s1ocki (slutsky), Monday, 26 December 2005 23:06 (eighteen years ago) link

this christmas, get carbombed with spielberg.

― u saved me (dubplatestyle), Monday, 26 December 2005 23:08 (eighteen years ago) link

jess where did you see it?

― Raymond Cummings (Raymond Cummings), Tuesday, 27 December 2005 15:44 (eighteen years ago) link

i was in d.c. over the weekend; it's playing at the regal in chinatown. i dunno when it's hitting bmore.

― u saved me (dubplatestyle), Tuesday, 27 December 2005 16:05 (eighteen years ago) link

very, very great.

― mark p (Mark P), Thursday, 5 January 2006 05:13 (eighteen years ago) link

i'd also like to second the american dreamz wtf.

― mark p (Mark P), Thursday, 5 January 2006 05:14 (eighteen years ago) link

this was really good

― latebloomer: Grab my puffy nipples and make a wish. (latebloomer), Thursday, 5 January 2006 14:53 (eighteen years ago) link

I thought it was pretty great. More entertaining than I was expecting. I was expecting a lot of brooding and moral agonizing, and there was a little of that, but much more spy-movie thriller action. I liked how he kind of explored all the shades of moral grey by testing the audience's ability & willingness to accept "collateral damage". Ie., is the mission still just if it requires killing innocent little girls? What if the innocent little girl is spared but the hot newlywed bride gets blinded? And so on.

― o. nate (onate), Thursday, 5 January 2006 15:26 (eighteen years ago) link

Hmm... I guess I should have put a *SPOILER ALERT* on that post.

― o. nate (onate), Thursday, 5 January 2006 22:19 (eighteen years ago) link

The first third was brilliant: a weary and destroyed Golda Meier ordering the kidnappings; the dinner-table conversations of the crew. The second third, with that marvelous actor who played Papa showikng Eric Bana to his country estate, was like the work of, I dunno, Eric Rohmer or minor Jean Renoir: scintillating country-house drama. Excellent.

The final third was a disaster. A crushing disappointment.

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Thursday, 5 January 2006 22:31 (eighteen years ago) link

Yes, I liked that country-house scene too. It seemed very odd that someone in the underworld would invite a client to meet their entire extended family, especially when they weren't even sure about his allegiances or mission (although by that time, I guess they had him pegged as Mossad). I mean blindfolding him on the way there doesn't seem like such tight security when he's going to be able to recognize all your relatives. It seemed implausible, but in terms of providing vivid and incongruous imagery it was great, I guess. I think the idea was to show that tribalism is not just a Middle East phenomenon.

I'm not sure why you thought the ending was such a crushing disappointment. It seemed to me that the film kind of just petered out. A few more members of the team died, he got called back, he retired... maybe not the most satisfying conclusion, but hardly seemed like the stuff of a disaster.

― o. nate (onate), Thursday, 5 January 2006 22:50 (eighteen years ago) link

The rightly-criticized crosscutting between sex and kidnapping was in horrid taste.

Also: the Papa family's Manchurian Candidate-style omnipotence didn't ring true either. It seemed as if Spielberg and his writers found a pat solution to an immensely complex problem.

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Thursday, 5 January 2006 22:55 (eighteen years ago) link

I don't see what's in bad taste about the flashback scene. He was having nightmares about what happened in Munich all through the movie - why is it unthinkable that he might think of it during sex?

― o. nate (onate), Thursday, 5 January 2006 23:00 (eighteen years ago) link

Because he's coming as the horror peaks?

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Thursday, 5 January 2006 23:02 (eighteen years ago) link

And this is bad because? I still don't get it, unless you think the filmmakers were trying to make some point about violence being a form of orgasmic release. That might seem a bit didactic - but the film doesn't really force that interpretation upon us.

― o. nate (onate), Thursday, 5 January 2006 23:04 (eighteen years ago) link

It's bad because there's little connection between the sex and the kidnapping -- tonally and morally.

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Thursday, 5 January 2006 23:09 (eighteen years ago) link

I didn't think it was in bad taste, it was just bad. I was waiting for Bana to fling his arms out to the side and start making airplane noises, the angle was that bad.

― Erick Dampier is better than Shaq (miloaukerman), Thursday, 5 January 2006 23:14 (eighteen years ago) link

the sex scene towards the end was rather awkward, but it didnt ruin the movie or anything.

― latebloomer: Grab my puffy nipples and make a wish. (latebloomer), Friday, 6 January 2006 02:21 (eighteen years ago) link

Yeah I thought this was very great. It has stuck with me. The sex scene didnt bother me so much.

― deej.. (deej..), Friday, 6 January 2006 02:49 (eighteen years ago) link

i kinda liked the sex scene because it had such an over-the-top ken russell vibe to it, i was like "really, spielberg? really?"

― s1ocki (slutsky), Friday, 6 January 2006 07:05 (eighteen years ago) link

i did feel like the sweat was going come out of the screen and splash on my face

― latebloomer: Let's just say I do for bullshit what Stonehenge did for Rocks (lat, Friday, 6 January 2006 07:39 (eighteen years ago) link

and goddammit, the guy sitting next to me had the worst B.O.

― latebloomer: Let's just say I do for bullshit what Stonehenge did for Rocks (lat, Friday, 6 January 2006 07:40 (eighteen years ago) link

I admit to be somewhat nonplussed when I first saw that sex/flashback scene. I was wondering what exactly Kushner, Spielberg, et al were on about. It seems to invite some kind of symbolic interpretation. However, I think if you just read it literally - ie., the guy even has nightmares about this when he's cumming - then it has a valid resonance. Ie., it shows the extent to which this horror has permeated his consciousness. Even in the release of sex he can't escape it. It's jarring, yes, but it's meant to be.

― o. nate (onate), Friday, 6 January 2006 18:40 (eighteen years ago) link

how did you all feel about the houseboat murder / nudity scene with the agent woman (some of you will probably know her name; I don't keep up with films much)?

I liked the movie, but like others are saying, only the first 60% is darkly fascinating...

― paulhw (paulhw), Friday, 6 January 2006 20:12 (eighteen years ago) link

I should have mentioned that scene. It was marvelous; you felt the mounting horror.

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Friday, 6 January 2006 20:50 (eighteen years ago) link

Yeah, that scene was great. The earlier scene though when the old guy hooks up with that femme fatale at the bar, and the other guy goes into his room and sees him lying on the bed, there's almost an audible thud as you hear the hoariest spy movie cliche in the book landing on the screen.

― o. nate (onate), Friday, 6 January 2006 20:58 (eighteen years ago) link

how can something land on a vertical screen?

― s1ocki (slutsky), Friday, 6 January 2006 21:02 (eighteen years ago) link

It's a metaphor, c'mon, work with me people.

― o. nate (onate), Friday, 6 January 2006 21:10 (eighteen years ago) link

The sex scene at the end was bad for all of the reasons already given but also because what it's crosscut with is the final terrorist acts in Munich -- rather than his own violent experiences, which he presumably has more nightmares about.

That said, I liked this film.

― jaymc (jaymc), Monday, 9 January 2006 08:19 (eighteen years ago) link

i liked the score! john williams was actually subtle and if the guy next to me has bo in the theater then i just say "fuck" and move

― howell huser (chaki), Monday, 9 January 2006 09:18 (eighteen years ago) link

The one thing I didn't like about the Eric Bana character's flashbacks was that it seemed like the filmmakers were trying to cut corners and have this one character's nightmares also serve the purpose of showing us what actually happened. But of course the Bana character wasn't there and couldn't have seen what actually happened. So his nightmares should have been based on his imagination of what happened. However, the fact that they used the same actors to play the athletes and terrorists in the supposedly factual flashbacks (which were not Bana's nightmares) as well as in his personal nightmares, and there was a continuity of action as though both were showing what actually happened, seemed to me slightly distracting. It would have been better if the Bana character's nightmares were markedly different in some way, either in terms of what the people looked like, or in terms of how it took place - though I guess that probably wouldn't really work in terms of the film - too confusing - though it seems like it would have been psychologically more accurate.

― o. nate (onate), Monday, 9 January 2006 16:39 (eighteen years ago) link

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