Bill Buckley seems like the kind of guy who would refer to himself with initials. when he wasn't using the royal "we"
― (REAL NAME) (m coleman), Thursday, 2 August 2012 01:19 (twelve years ago) link
skimmed through some of that norman podhoretz attack on him from the early '80s, the one that apparently convinced conservatives that vidal was an 'anti-semite.' it's pretty rife with ugly, homophobic stuff.
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Thursday, 2 August 2012 01:22 (twelve years ago) link
theres a horrible NRO thing from whats his face that speculates that vidal wanted to fuck wfb
― max, Thursday, 2 August 2012 01:24 (twelve years ago) link
By Jonah Goldberg
I’m getting a lot of dyspeptic feedback from folks who’re mad that NRO isn’t doing more to mark the death of Gore Vidal (though we do have an excellent little item from Rick Brookhiser). I’m torn about the matter. I’ve been trying to stick to the policy of not speaking too ill, too soon, of the dead. It’s a policy I haven’t always stuck to, but I think it’s worth trying. True fidelity to that principle would require complete silence after typing the phrase “Gore Vidal is dead.” I think though it’s at least worth recalling that Vidal himself showed no respect to such a principle when his better in every regard, William F. Buckley, passed away. Also, I rather like the idea that Vidal’s passing is not being hailed as all that big a deal, because it isn’t.
― a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 2 August 2012 01:26 (twelve years ago) link
Remembering that Buckley's book about his parents was called Losing Mum and Pup: A Memoir, between WFB and Pup, WFB suddenly doesn't seem so bad.
― clemenza, Thursday, 2 August 2012 01:27 (twelve years ago) link
Also, I rather like the idea that Vidal’s passing is not being hailed as all that big a deal, because it isn’t.
Silly--it was the lead story on CNN's main page for much of the day.
― clemenza, Thursday, 2 August 2012 01:28 (twelve years ago) link
brookhiser:
http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/312887/my-visit-gore-vidal-richard-brookhiser
About WFB and Vidal and 1968 — I did not see the famous clash on ABC, though there are clips on YouTube and I read the apologia that WFB wrote for Esquire. God, they hated each other. My speculation is that Bill was enraged because he sensed that Vidal wanted to sleep with him, and Vidal was enraged because he knew that would never happen.
― max, Thursday, 2 August 2012 01:28 (twelve years ago) link
gross. those fucking assholes.
― horseshoe, Thursday, 2 August 2012 01:29 (twelve years ago) link
at least Brookhiser ate some of Vidal's cheese.
― a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 2 August 2012 01:29 (twelve years ago) link
in that book Pup comes across better than Mum because she was, in her son's estimation, a heartless snob and difficult i.e. a total bitch
― (REAL NAME) (m coleman), Thursday, 2 August 2012 01:30 (twelve years ago) link
i don't know how you guys can stand to look at that site even for fun -- my teeth would have fallen out by now from constant grinding.
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Thursday, 2 August 2012 01:31 (twelve years ago) link
ugh
― (REAL NAME) (m coleman), Thursday, 2 August 2012 01:32 (twelve years ago) link
J.D., for me it's like replenishing bullets at an armory. I still have batshit relatives.
― a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 2 August 2012 01:33 (twelve years ago) link
leaving aside the sheer homophobic creepiness of that, the implication that WFB was somehow out of vidal's league looks-wise is pretty wtf
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Thursday, 2 August 2012 01:34 (twelve years ago) link
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_yh0p83tykh0/TThbGRcHFwI/AAAAAAAAADQ/kGwJp0qcfv4/s1600/william-f-buckley-jr.jpg
― a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 2 August 2012 01:36 (twelve years ago) link
well i think the implication is more that WFB didnt sleep with men
― Hungry4Ass, Thursday, 2 August 2012 01:40 (twelve years ago) link
ratfaced bastard xp
Rick Brookhiser looks like a fucking '50s space alien btw
― Pangborn to be Wilde (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 2 August 2012 01:41 (twelve years ago) link
I'll defend Brookhiser's The Outside Story, his acocunt of the '84 campaign. Good bon mots.
― a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 2 August 2012 01:44 (twelve years ago) link
Vidal was an attitudinizer who would say anything to be noticed, including shots at his own side.
ah yes his "side"
― a hauntingly unemployed american (difficult listening hour), Thursday, 2 August 2012 01:44 (twelve years ago) link
the AP obit called Vidal a liberal, con't think he wd be pleased.
I rather like the idea that Vidal’s passing is not being hailed as all that big a deal, because it isn’t.
yeah well, neither was JFK's. (except maybe it helped the civil rights bills along)
― Pangborn to be Wilde (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 2 August 2012 01:46 (twelve years ago) link
irl loled at this in that paris review thing alfred posted:
INTERVIEWERHave you ever thought of acting, as Norman Mailer does?VIDALIs that what he does?
VIDALIs that what he does?
― a hauntingly unemployed american (difficult listening hour), Thursday, 2 August 2012 01:49 (twelve years ago) link
yeah well, neither was JFK's
You don't really believe this, do you? Forgetting about politically, even--on a cultural level, if nothing else.
― clemenza, Thursday, 2 August 2012 01:51 (twelve years ago) link
yeah, one of umpteen times class whore America lost her innicence yadda yadda
― Pangborn to be Wilde (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 2 August 2012 01:55 (twelve years ago) link
Yikes. I want to quote a line from Sweet Smell of Success, but I won't.
― clemenza, Thursday, 2 August 2012 01:57 (twelve years ago) link
no really, there was a mournful "ppl watching Dallas '63 on the store window TV" scene when I saw The Wanderers recently, and I nearly yelled "Spare me."
was Malcolm X a cookie full of arsenic?
― Pangborn to be Wilde (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 2 August 2012 02:05 (twelve years ago) link
you wanna be up high where the air is balmy
― a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 2 August 2012 02:07 (twelve years ago) link
It's a Gore Vidal thread, I don't want to sidetrack it, but I would hardly know where to begin disputing this. Maybe start with the PBS Warhol biography, the part that describes how the assassination affected him, and then go from there.
― clemenza, Thursday, 2 August 2012 02:08 (twelve years ago) link
the key word with Warhol is "affect"
― a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 2 August 2012 02:09 (twelve years ago) link
my favorite opening to a vidal essay:
Most Americans of a certain age can recall exactly where they were and what they were doing on October 20, 1964, when word came that Herbert Hoover was dead. The heart and mind of a nation stopped.
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Thursday, 2 August 2012 02:16 (twelve years ago) link
hahaha
Mr Veedle: "Andy Warhol is the only genius I've met with an IQ of 60."
― Pangborn to be Wilde (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 2 August 2012 02:17 (twelve years ago) link
really clem, you picked the wrong thread to cluck over ppl being poisonous.
― Pangborn to be Wilde (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 2 August 2012 02:18 (twelve years ago) link
Last word I'll say on the matter, promise. The segment I'm thinking about starts at 1:47:30.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljlHbHL8KUo
No, I don't expect that this will be worth anything to you. But "I don't know what this means" is a very good question, even though it's not a question.
― clemenza, Thursday, 2 August 2012 02:23 (twelve years ago) link
GV on JFK:
"Jack Kennedy... was a good friend—-witty, sharp, and very smart. I would rather be with him than practically anybody now alive. But what did he do for us in a thousand days? He invades Cuba, fucks up, and brings the world close to a nuclear collision over the so-called missiles down there in Cuba. Deplorable."
(btw, he said Teddy's legacy "was nothing," which I disagree with)
― Pangborn to be Wilde (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 2 August 2012 02:27 (twelve years ago) link
KLOMAN: What kind of president would Bobby Kennedy have been?
VIDAL: Pretty sinister. A little Machiavellian. Not Machiavellian, he was Savonarola, he was highly moral, obsessed, vengeance. Jack had a funny story about him. Nobody could stand him, they put up with him because of John. And somebody came up to Jack and was complaining about Bobby's behavior. And Jack says (slipping into a hauntingly good Kennedy impersonation): "Look, you've got to remember, Bobby's a policeman, he's gotta arrest somebody. If he hasn't arrested somebody, he'll go home at night and he'll arrest Rose."
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Thursday, 2 August 2012 02:29 (twelve years ago) link
i find the cult of robert kennedy even more odious than any JFK sentimentalism -- the whole camelot thing has been pretty well discredited, but hard-nosed liberals will still get all weepy thinking of 'what could've been.'
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Thursday, 2 August 2012 02:32 (twelve years ago) link
thankfully he's still an odious shit in the new Caro volume.
― a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 2 August 2012 02:33 (twelve years ago) link
doesn't come off too well in Nixonland either.
― Pangborn to be Wilde (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 2 August 2012 02:35 (twelve years ago) link
(it took me 11-1/2 months to read)
at the same time we're in no position to tell black liberals that they have no right to their affection for the buck-toothed Savonarola once he converted to liberalism in the late sixties though.
― a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 2 August 2012 02:36 (twelve years ago) link
still need to read nixonland. nixon's inspired more great books than any other politician, hasn't he? 'the selling of the president,' the HST campaign book, jonathan schell's stuff, 'nixon agonistes.'
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Thursday, 2 August 2012 02:37 (twelve years ago) link
and, yes, Vidal's views on the Kennedyklan were so ossified that he couldn't recognize poor dumb Teddy as the greatest liberal of the last forty years.
― a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 2 August 2012 02:38 (twelve years ago) link
RFK converted to liberalism in his last 6-12 months!
― Pangborn to be Wilde (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 2 August 2012 02:40 (twelve years ago) link
At least Bobby hated LBJ for all the right reasons.
― Ring brother, ring for me! (Viceroy), Thursday, 2 August 2012 02:44 (twelve years ago) link
LBJ had the advantage: he hated RFK and himself for the right (and left) reasons.
― a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 2 August 2012 02:45 (twelve years ago) link
J.D. you should read nixonland and then start a thread about it! it's great. i think it took me 11 1/2 months, too.
― horseshoe, Thursday, 2 August 2012 02:45 (twelve years ago) link
i think i will! need to read his goldwater book too.
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Thursday, 2 August 2012 02:47 (twelve years ago) link
Of the two, I thought the Goldwater book was even better.
― clemenza, Thursday, 2 August 2012 02:48 (twelve years ago) link
I think this is still a thing thanks mainly to Hunter S. Thompson... at least when I read his campaign trail books he was always returning back to '68 and basically reiterating that Nixon was pure evil and RFK was pure good.
― Ring brother, ring for me! (Viceroy), Thursday, 2 August 2012 02:49 (twelve years ago) link
the new The Presidents Club shows Nixon's outsized influence on the Reagan, Bush, and Clinton presidencies.
― a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 2 August 2012 02:49 (twelve years ago) link
i'm a gene mccarthy guy myself.
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Thursday, 2 August 2012 02:50 (twelve years ago) link