anyway what that 70k number means is that there are some some teachers with 30 year seniority who are pulling 100+
― the late great, Monday, 10 September 2012 18:31 (eleven years ago) link
josh in chicago back to math class
― the late great, Monday, 10 September 2012 18:32 (eleven years ago) link
"70k average" means if you go into a school and grab a teacher by the arm and say "hey how much do you make?" they say "why 70k of course" and if you ask 50 teachers most of them will tell you that.
in the last school district i worked in in california, the average was 81k, which meant there were a handful of people who had phds and 20+ years and were making 125k - which if you think about it, getting 125k for working 20 years with a phd in silicon valley is kinda peanuts - and a whole lot of people
― the late great, Monday, 10 September 2012 18:36 (eleven years ago) link
i want to know the median and mode teacher pay, if you will
― the late great, Monday, 10 September 2012 18:38 (eleven years ago) link
anyway is salary at the top of list of demands or at the bottom?
― the late great, Monday, 10 September 2012 18:39 (eleven years ago) link
Can't go to math class, teachers on strike.
Supposedly, salary is not even an issue in this strike, which is what's so weird and/or dubious.
― Josh in Chicago, Monday, 10 September 2012 18:40 (eleven years ago) link
isn't the standardized testing stuff related to teacher evaluations which is what the whole 'shutting down schools and opening non-union charter' tactic hinges on? seemed like that was a big bone of contention to me.― DX Dx DX (dan m), Monday, September 10, 2012 7:39 AM (5 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― DX Dx DX (dan m), Monday, September 10, 2012 7:39 AM (5 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
bingo.
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Monday, 10 September 2012 18:40 (eleven years ago) link
That's one. And then there's the issue of schools being able to rehire back fired teachers if spaces open up. Those are to two big sticking points. But I've seen a litany of demands, from A/C units to more social workers to, yes, better pay, to account for rising health insurance costs.
― Josh in Chicago, Monday, 10 September 2012 18:42 (eleven years ago) link
also AFAICT rahm asked teachers to spend several extra hours (was it 130 min?) PER DAY at school without essentially paying them for those extra hours. so the token "raise" the city is offering is, if you factor in 100s of additional hours, actually a huge wage cut. rahm hired an independent fact-finder who (oops!) sided with the union on this issue, and then rahm dismissed the fact-finder.
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Monday, 10 September 2012 18:47 (eleven years ago) link
this is a fight over the direction of "public" education not just over wages+benefits though, even though most news reports make it sound like the latter because the other stuff is complicated.
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Monday, 10 September 2012 18:48 (eleven years ago) link
also i might be coming down this weekend to walk some picket lines so if anyone wants to have a picket line FAP just holla.
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Monday, 10 September 2012 18:49 (eleven years ago) link
Also that teachers should be compensated as professional-level workers.
I totally agree with this, 100%, if not more. But then I look at that $70k number and realize, holy shit thats more than I make as someone with both a Master's Degree and a license in a very specific, highly trained profession.
― heated debate over derpy hooves (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Monday, 10 September 2012 18:49 (eleven years ago) link
i just looked up the average pay for a plumber in chicago and got $60k
― the late great, Monday, 10 September 2012 18:51 (eleven years ago) link
I make as someone with both a Master's Degree and a license in a very specific, highly trained profession.
oh hey are you a teacher?
― the late great, Monday, 10 September 2012 18:52 (eleven years ago) link
lol, no. i'm genuinely not trying to turn this into a "teachers are overpaid" because they're not. i'm just posting my reaction to that $70k number when i heard it, i'd love to be making that right now.
― heated debate over derpy hooves (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Monday, 10 September 2012 18:53 (eleven years ago) link
true dat. i'm making less than half that. teachers should probably shut up about wages, except that--again--emanuel asked them to work an extra 130 minutes a day with only a token raise--which is effectively a huge pay cut. would you work 20% more each day for a 2% raise and be happy about it?
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Monday, 10 September 2012 18:56 (eleven years ago) link
this is OTM when based on what I've heard from all the teachers I know
― DX Dx DX (dan m), Monday, 10 September 2012 18:57 (eleven years ago) link
if i was a public-school teacher (well, i am, just at the higher-ed level), i'd sooner take a pay cut than be asked to teach classes of 40+ students. at that size you're basically just wrangling, not teaching.
i came up through the chicago public schools and i remember my classes that had 30+ or 35+ students and it was a fucking mess. teacher was harried, students got no individualized attention, you felt lost.
btw the last time CTU went on strike was 1987 and i was on the picket line w/ my teachers.
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Monday, 10 September 2012 19:00 (eleven years ago) link
yeah i'm going to step out because talking about it makes me research it which leads me to understand what joe comments box thinks
- teachers get 1/4 of the year off! (try seven or eight weeks)- teachers work from 7 to 3 w/ a paid lunch!- teachers have ironclad job security and can never be fired!- most teachers just pass out worksheets and do shit!- most teachers are just people who can't succeed in a real profession!- most teachers get a 100% pension at age 55 and the same medical benefits the governor gets!
etc etc etc
― the late great, Monday, 10 September 2012 19:03 (eleven years ago) link
yeah the anti-union hate comes out real strong in comments
have you read the phrase "union thugs" yet? you know, those ladies who teach kindergarten, they'll fuck a man up.
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Monday, 10 September 2012 19:04 (eleven years ago) link
what a fucked-up backward society we live in that people can direct all this hate at TEACHERS for fuck's sake.
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Monday, 10 September 2012 19:05 (eleven years ago) link
Should stress that I don't think teachers are overpaid, either, though I do think they are paid enough, which may also explain why the union is being very careful not to bring up pay (even though it is swimming somewhere in there among their demands, and not just related to the extra hours being required of them).
Also, stuff like class size, even that comes down to money, because smaller classes means more schools and more teachers. Which does not seem in the cards, no matter how well they carve up the budget.
Per the fight over public education, that's why a lot of people feel this strike was pre-ordained and that the demands, as such, are slightly disingenuous. The teachers wanted, maybe needed, to make a point, especially given what's been going on with unions on a national level. That's why it's such a very delicate balance they need to strike (so to speak). Too strident and they loose support, which hurts them in the long run. Not strident enough and they get branded push-overs. And all along, there are those people who would brand them lazy and greedy and all deserving to be fired. You know, like Reagan did to the air traffic controllers.
― Josh in Chicago, Monday, 10 September 2012 19:05 (eleven years ago) link
true, as part of a teacher's union i do think some demands are kind of unreasonable given current state of economy and should be dropped. that usually fell on deaf ears at member meetings, though.
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Monday, 10 September 2012 19:07 (eleven years ago) link
they do have pretty good benefits, by and large. And OK pay. It's a tough negotiating position, from a public perspective, to strike for more when they already have more than many, however hard the job
anyway i'm NOT part of the teacher's union and in general i think the teacher's union in california is not a very good thing but the part about having more than many just has me smdh
― the late great, Monday, 10 September 2012 19:07 (eleven years ago) link
bottom line though: nobody strikes as an indulgence. it's a major disruption in the lives of those striking, and puts you in a very precarious situation. so when folks strike these days (any time in the last 30 years, really), i start by assuming they've got a legit beef. in this case, they have a whole slate of legit beefs.
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Monday, 10 September 2012 19:08 (eleven years ago) link
This would be an excellent occasion for the president to fulfill his remark from 2008 that he couldn't wait to walk a picket line as POTUS. Bet it happens tomorrow!
― kizz my hairy irish azz (Dr Morbius), Monday, 10 September 2012 19:08 (eleven years ago) link
lol
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Monday, 10 September 2012 19:10 (eleven years ago) link
morbius your remark is more annoying and disappointing than obama's imo
― the late great, Monday, 10 September 2012 19:10 (eleven years ago) link
he was always bullshitting when he said that though, i knew from the beginning.
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Monday, 10 September 2012 19:11 (eleven years ago) link
yes, his lips were moving
― kizz my hairy irish azz (Dr Morbius), Monday, 10 September 2012 19:11 (eleven years ago) link
Romney has already jumped into this particular fray. How is this strike playing out on the national level? Is it being covered on TV and stuff? (I don't have cable)
― Josh in Chicago, Monday, 10 September 2012 19:11 (eleven years ago) link
yeah and i bet that c*nt b*tch of a wife isn't going to walk either, right morbius?
― the late great, Monday, 10 September 2012 19:12 (eleven years ago) link
O's kids went to private school about 3 blocks from where I now sit, I think we know his feelings on the matter
― DX Dx DX (dan m), Monday, 10 September 2012 19:12 (eleven years ago) link
plz let's not turn this quite informative discussion into an obama fight itt
― DX Dx DX (dan m), Monday, 10 September 2012 19:13 (eleven years ago) link
Did Obama kids go to Lab School?
― Josh in Chicago, Monday, 10 September 2012 19:13 (eleven years ago) link
afaik yes
― DX Dx DX (dan m), Monday, 10 September 2012 19:14 (eleven years ago) link
morbs do you have a mac?
http://www.macupdate.com/app/mac/31289/selfcontrol
you're boring as fuck, and i can't imagine this makes you happy either. do yourself a favor and take a long break.
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Monday, 10 September 2012 19:18 (eleven years ago) link
― DX Dx DX (dan m), Monday, September 10, 2012 2:13 PM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
this
don't imagine what makes me happy; I wonder if you can...
― kizz my hairy irish azz (Dr Morbius), Monday, 10 September 2012 19:21 (eleven years ago) link
Take it outside, Morbs, tlg, ama. Please. Please.
amateurist OTM throughout.
― carl agatha, Monday, 10 September 2012 19:46 (eleven years ago) link
http://www.redeyechicago.com/news/chi-120907-teachers-union-strike-public-schools-pictures,0,963900.photogallery
pic #3
seems like the Fire could get some good exposure since everyone's wearing red and there are a LOT of teachers in the fanbase
― DX Dx DX (dan m), Monday, 10 September 2012 19:59 (eleven years ago) link
Saw a lot of teachers/supporters coming back from lunch today. I think I'll wear read tomorrow and Wednesday in solidarity.
― carl agatha, Monday, 10 September 2012 20:00 (eleven years ago) link
i don't think i own any red clothes. maybe a tie with red in it?
― congratulations (n/a), Monday, 10 September 2012 20:04 (eleven years ago) link
Put a red bandanna in the right back pocket of your pants.
― carl agatha, Monday, 10 September 2012 20:07 (eleven years ago) link
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/A2dSeb-CAAEvfea.jpg
― DX Dx DX (dan m), Monday, 10 September 2012 20:21 (eleven years ago) link
Red looks p horrendous on me, it'll have to be a tie. The only other red item I own is a Man United shirt and a GbV Coka-Cola knock-off shirt, neither of which would be AGL at my meetings tomorrow.
― heated debate over derpy hooves (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Monday, 10 September 2012 21:15 (eleven years ago) link
fuck man utd, support your local club! ;)
― DX Dx DX (dan m), Monday, 10 September 2012 21:22 (eleven years ago) link
The Fire are definitely my MLS team, that's for sure. I kinda feel like I can't wear any of their merch until I make it down to a match though. (Not that I've been to a Man United match either, but that was a college phase I never outgrew, etc)
― heated debate over derpy hooves (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Monday, 10 September 2012 21:29 (eleven years ago) link
Perhaps this has been already noted somewhere and I missed it, but there's an interview with 0. A$hw0rth in this month's library journal, and our very own n/a is mentioned in it! It was a pleasant surprise to stumble upon this interview while flipping through this esteemed journal's pages this afternoon.
― doctor, doctor, give me the news (askance johnson), Monday, 10 September 2012 22:13 (eleven years ago) link
Oh I haven't gotten my copy yet
― congratulations (n/a), Monday, 10 September 2012 22:25 (eleven years ago) link