there are lots of different arguments about that. personally I think morality is a relative social construct developed to ensure the survival and cohesion of the tribe/country/species. I don't accept the existence of some kind of universal moral law.
― stop swearing and start windmilling (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 25 September 2012 18:11 (eleven years ago) link
don't see why the assumption necessarily follows
I said: "The rules, such as they are understood, are evidently never broken. This would imply that our understanding is imperfect, not that the rules are imperfectly followed."
By "evidently" I was referring to evidence. The rules of the standard model of quantum physics are currently claimed only to reliably describe what happens at a quantum level, for obvious reasons. However, within that domain, no evidence has been observed that these rules are broken. That's what my first sentence was meant to convey.
Nor did I say that it necessarily followed that there are not exceptions to the rules, only that there was an implication that our understanding of what rules apply is currently ill-formed. This implication exists because of the axiomatic strength of the Law of Uniformity. Past experience would show that contradictions between rules (which exist below the level of axioms or laws) and evidence are generally resolved without having falsified a physical law.
light is both wave and particle?!
As far as we know, yes.
― Aimless, Tuesday, 25 September 2012 18:13 (eleven years ago) link
depends how you're measuring it
― stop swearing and start windmilling (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 25 September 2012 18:14 (eleven years ago) link
that's what she said
― a shark with a rippling six pack (Phil D.), Tuesday, 25 September 2012 18:15 (eleven years ago) link
personally I think morality is a relative social construct developed to ensure the survival and cohesion of the tribe/country/species. I don't accept the existence of some kind of universal moral law.
sorry, I thought you were arguing that upthread but I guess it was just mordy.
― wk, Tuesday, 25 September 2012 18:17 (eleven years ago) link
yeah well you know what you get when you put two jews in a room? three opinions
― stop swearing and start windmilling (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 25 September 2012 18:21 (eleven years ago) link
i accept the existence of some kind of universal moral law! some kind at least. i think most ppl agree w/ that too.
― Mordy, Tuesday, 25 September 2012 18:22 (eleven years ago) link
In a Chomskian kind of way, I think I agree w/Mordy.
― The windiest militant trash (Michael White), Tuesday, 25 September 2012 18:24 (eleven years ago) link
One of my favorite jokes.
― purveyor of generations (in orbit), Tuesday, 25 September 2012 18:25 (eleven years ago) link
by universal, I presume you mean the universe of human interactions, not the universe of galaxies.
― Aimless, Tuesday, 25 September 2012 18:25 (eleven years ago) link
What do you get when you put two Irish Jews in a room?
― The windiest militant trash (Michael White), Tuesday, 25 September 2012 18:26 (eleven years ago) link
three opinions and a fistfight?
― Aimless, Tuesday, 25 September 2012 18:36 (eleven years ago) link
well most people believe in god so, yeah.
― wk, Tuesday, 25 September 2012 18:39 (eleven years ago) link
xxp yes, i don't believe stars have an ethical imperative not to explode + consume galaxies. universal for humans
― Mordy, Tuesday, 25 September 2012 18:40 (eleven years ago) link
erin go bracccchhhhh ?
― Philip Nunez, Tuesday, 25 September 2012 18:40 (eleven years ago) link
alotta latkes?
― the fucking deslongchamps (rip van wanko), Tuesday, 25 September 2012 18:49 (eleven years ago) link
Morality comes from evolution, the higher brain functions of mammals versus reptiles, things like compassion, raising your young, etc. are evolutionarily recent phenomenon.
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Tuesday, 25 September 2012 19:37 (eleven years ago) link
not that i've ever met an ethical snake, but why can't reptiles have morality?
― Philip Nunez, Tuesday, 25 September 2012 19:39 (eleven years ago) link
distracts from gerbil-eating
― stop swearing and start windmilling (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 25 September 2012 19:41 (eleven years ago) link
reptilian moral imperatives: eat! don't be eaten! reproduce! repeat as needed!
― Aimless, Tuesday, 25 September 2012 19:42 (eleven years ago) link
you forgot sleep
― stop swearing and start windmilling (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 25 September 2012 19:42 (eleven years ago) link
snakes can't make pals? (i never had a pet snake but people who do seem to like them all the same)
― Philip Nunez, Tuesday, 25 September 2012 19:44 (eleven years ago) link
morality is a collective endeavor, something that governs relationships between members of a group. snakes don't belong to groups, not even family units (cf. Aimless' reference to raising young etc.)
― stop swearing and start windmilling (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 25 September 2012 19:46 (eleven years ago) link
interesting to consider the question for social animals tho... say, ants.
Plus that snake would eat you if it thought it could get away with it.
― a shark with a rippling six pack (Phil D.), Tuesday, 25 September 2012 19:46 (eleven years ago) link
someone better warn slash
― Philip Nunez, Tuesday, 25 September 2012 19:47 (eleven years ago) link
pet snakes are fed, making them docile. the snake owner supplies the palsy-walsy feelings.
― Aimless, Tuesday, 25 September 2012 19:48 (eleven years ago) link
Adam B referenced raising o' young.
― Aimless, Tuesday, 25 September 2012 19:49 (eleven years ago) link
oh sorry
― stop swearing and start windmilling (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 25 September 2012 19:53 (eleven years ago) link
huh. where DO ants fall in this taxonomy of morality?
― Philip Nunez, Tuesday, 25 September 2012 19:54 (eleven years ago) link
you already kinda answered this:
I think morality is a relative social construct developed to ensure the survival and cohesion of the tribe/country/species
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Tuesday, 25 September 2012 19:55 (eleven years ago) link
well right I was just idly thinking of what other animals moral systems would look like. QUEEN GOOD, OTHER ANTS BAD
― stop swearing and start windmilling (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 25 September 2012 19:58 (eleven years ago) link
if you're going that route though, snakes could just as easily have some kind of snake laws
― Philip Nunez, Tuesday, 25 September 2012 20:03 (eleven years ago) link
snake laws: eat! don't be eaten! reproduce! repeat as needed! (& sleep! <-- added to mollify shakey)
― Aimless, Tuesday, 25 September 2012 20:06 (eleven years ago) link
SNAKE SHALL NOT KILL SNAKE
― a shark with a rippling six pack (Phil D.), Tuesday, 25 September 2012 20:09 (eleven years ago) link
Snakes are always shouting?
― Evan, Tuesday, 25 September 2012 20:09 (eleven years ago) link
A GIS on "snake eats snake" reveals the truth about that law's effectiveness.
― Aimless, Tuesday, 25 September 2012 20:11 (eleven years ago) link
Some obsucure English scribbler once said, "There is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so", and it inclines me to think that there is a universal morality 'cause we can quibble about the details but we all bascially accept that there is something called morality. Otherwise what would good be, what would bad be? Arguing about that is half of human existence, solipsism, narcissism and sociopathy are outliers (if only just).
― The windiest militant trash (Michael White), Tuesday, 25 September 2012 20:17 (eleven years ago) link
We all fall short of our moral codes from time to time. xp
― a shark with a rippling six pack (Phil D.), Tuesday, 25 September 2012 20:18 (eleven years ago) link
Glycon sez: bring me gifts, have awesome hair like me.
― wk, Tuesday, 25 September 2012 20:18 (eleven years ago) link
QUEEN GOOD, OTHER ANTS BAD
That's not so far off from ours. You're human and you get it. It's a crap shoot and their 'morality' still prevails against an indifferent and often hostile universe.
― The windiest militant trash (Michael White), Tuesday, 25 September 2012 20:22 (eleven years ago) link
http://cdn.ebaumsworld.com/mediaFiles/picture/120821/81346940.jpg
― Evan, Tuesday, 25 September 2012 20:30 (eleven years ago) link
I killed it.
― Evan, Wednesday, 26 September 2012 01:32 (eleven years ago) link
http://www.answersingenesis.org/assets/images/articles/am/v4/n3/fang-design.gif
― Philip Nunez, Wednesday, 26 September 2012 01:55 (eleven years ago) link
Even's image was so appropriate to be the final image of an ilx thread that no one else had the heart to post after seeing its perfection.
― Aimless, Wednesday, 26 September 2012 02:09 (eleven years ago) link
Where's the morality gland?
― Evan, Wednesday, 26 September 2012 02:10 (eleven years ago) link
Haha!
I would like to interrupt this thread to say I think this is funny. http://www.conservapedia.com/Theory_of_relativity
― Jeff, Wednesday, 26 September 2012 11:45 (eleven years ago) link
the citation for the mercury perihelion anomaly points to ... another conservapdia article! http://www.conservapedia.com/Counterexamples_to_Relativity which includes this gem:
15. The action-at-a-distance by Jesus, described in John 4:46-54, Matthew 15:28, and Matthew 27:51.
― ledge, Wednesday, 26 September 2012 11:52 (eleven years ago) link
i find it really weird there's such a prevalence in UK for atheism rah-rah stuff when it seems much more chill to be a self-proclaimed atheist there. Also, weird how much into the Simpsons they are. (in the UK not just atheists)
― Philip Nunez, Wednesday, 26 September 2012 18:31 (eleven years ago) link