If you could push a button and simply cease to exist, would you press it?

"life is worth living" is a statement with a lot to unpack. Worth what? To who? Living how? How can we be sure?

― www.toilet-guru.com (silby), Friday, October 12, 2012 1:55 PM (20 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

pack that shit back up & liveitup, homie

I guess part of the issue is that it sucks to see that ilxors who have provided me with happiness via hilarious/insightful posts don't find joy in their own lives/existence. And that's part of why I think it's sort of important to mention suicide in this thread. ILX has experienced that loss as a community, and many of us have lost friends either to suicide, or the de facto suicide of personal neglect, or a tragic accident, or whatever. It isn't a hypothetical situation, and it doesn't come with a button. So while this thread is an interesting intellectual exercise, it's hard not so see it as a red flag, and while forks may have come off a little braggy, I think what he's really saying is "come have fun with me in New York! Don't press the button!"

in admitting to others that you would accept a consequence-free elimination-of-self, that could also be interpreted as a negation of another's state of happiness. Logic being that "I do not accept that my happinesses or yours make life worth living" and "I do not accept a human's capacity for life-changes, or that these changes could create a positive effect on their outlook", it's an enormously provocative statement, imo

That isn't a logical inference, that's an emotional response. I do not accept that my happinesses or yours makes my life worth living, but I never said shit about whether it makes your own life worth living.

it's a major underpinning of a lot of ethics that life is sacred/gift/beauty/etc, i don't think forks articulating that idea is so controversial.

Most ethics is bunk. And I never said that forks' posts were "controversial". I am saying that they're limiting, and an imposition of his own ideals onto others.

it's impossible to state an opinion without imposing your ideals upon others

Actually, it isn't.

the way you spit things ppl say back at them you would think it was tho

FTR, I wasn't castigating forks at all before. I'm always happy for anyone who's legitimately able to find happiness and meaning in life. But like some dude said, the externalities of one's life sometime have an unfortunate lack of consonance with the shit going on in one's head. And although a lot of people would surely disagree, I feel pretty strongly that the value and beauty of life is a perspective rather than a universal truth.

the way you spit things ppl say back at them you would think it was tho

What, the way I use verbatim evidence to support my claims? Oh shit, sorry man, I didn't realise I was supposed to talk ill-informed bollocks instead.

ethics as first philosophy

emil.y, you may be miserable, but you are also hilarious.

life is grotesque. push the button.

i don't want to push it now, but i'd like to have the option in the future

emil.y, the act of describing an opinion or viewpoint to someone and making them understand it is, by definition, imposing your viewpoint upon someone else. I do not think it is actually possible to communicate an idea or understand other people's points of view without this type of imposition, therefore I do not see it as an exclusively negative process.

WCC pitching "the button" as a new concept to a home electronics firm, using this thread to collect market data. pie chart shows two thirds of consumers open to installing some kind of button, depending on ease of use, cost efficiency, attractive design.

xp em. eh no i mean just acting like some guy making a posi post relating trying to relate his own history of happiness/depression to that of a community he is a part of is an "imposition of his own ideals onto others", seems so needlessly defensive & such a generic & universally applicable accusation that dan's post makes sense itc

emil.y, the act of describing an opinion or viewpoint to someone and making them understand it is, by definition, imposing your viewpoint upon someone else. I do not think it is actually possible to communicate an idea or understand other people's points of view without this type of imposition, therefore I do not see it as an exclusively negative process.

DJP, I think your interpretation of 'imposing' here is misleading. One would imagine that a discussion wherein one proffered an opinion to one's conversational partner would be more accurately described as an 'exchange' or a 'proffering' of ideas, or even a 'negotiation'. An imposition is a much more forceful process.

btw, emily totally otm

got to say that if 'being told how to feel' or similar was a particular bugbear of mine then I would probably have tried to give a thread with a title like this a wide berth

What about a button, or machine, that when you enter it, you play out the rest of our life in a virtual state where everything plays out in the most positive possible way. You wouldn't even realise it wasn't real and you were guaranteed that everything in your life were to pan out in utter bliss. Would you do it?

Sorry about structure of that sentence, typin on the phone

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Experience_machine

, in which dog latin reflects on his extended bluray session of millennial sci-fi flicks

DJP, I think your interpretation of 'imposing' here is misleading. One would imagine that a discussion wherein one proffered an opinion to one's conversational partner would be more accurately described as an 'exchange' or a 'proffering' of ideas, or even a 'negotiation'. An imposition is a much more forceful process

Yes and no. All of the actions you're describing are differing degrees of the same process, governed by both parties' expectations going into the conversation, and those degrees are affected as much by perception as they are intent.

Well it's not supposed to be an original concept, but hey

things are p rad, gonna keep exisiting

xxxp or American Dad episodes: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Vacation_Goo

It's days like this I wish Banaka would show up

Maybe this button should just put have the power to put you on stand-by for just 6 months with no consequences, rather than cease to exist altogether. There's experiences I'd rather have not been round for (such as practically the whole of 1995), but not worth giving up the rest of my life to avoid.

I most definitely would push the button. When, is the question.

the most I'd consent to is activating a process that has a small random chance of pressing the button at any given moment, biased towards several decades from now

You guys should look at more ricky rubio gifs

What if the button were a cat's anus?

some people don't get fulfillment from happiness, but that doesn't mean embracing misery is going to make you more fulfilled

the times in my life where I'd have said "sure!" to this button aren't those where amazingly bad things had happened. when things actually happen, that gives you a bunch of real shit to deal with, and I can understand the impulse to end it all at those points, but not with the disconnect the question would give. In those instances I may feel hopeless, but I want the chance for redeeming the situation. When I felt like a total lump, I'd want to hit rock bottom and tear a hole through it, making everything blow up and leaving a sucking void where I was.

It's the days when I didn't feel much at all, that I was probably either depressed or just disconnected, that I'd rather just walk out without anyone noticing, and I'd push the button.

Is the refutation of my priviliged twattery that life is NOT worth living for some? And that it is presumptuous to tell other people life is precious? What exactly should we bear that in mind as a bulwark against? It's a short text message on a BBS, I can't cover all the exigent circumstances of justifiable despair. I think as a rule, life is a gift, no precious moments, and it's mystifyingly sad that spurs an argument.

Btw sex and pottery exist with equal oomph on the phenomenomenomenomenological and JAHLOVE continuum for me; I am a firm believer that we are what we do/consume/create/share/abuse

And yeah, feel free to come out to the city and not not exist! As any ilxor I've met IRL over the past five years will tell you, I will always put u on the list and buy u the first round. U too em!

didn't the chemical brothers have a song about this?

Forks, YOU CALLED PEOPLE PRIVILEGED. I WAS QUITE CLEARLY USING YOUR VOICE. Jesus Christ, try actually reading something for a change. If you can't be bothered to even do that then fuck it, I'm out.

"fuck it, I'm out"

-- actual label on the button?

I feel like we'd have to be really careful in labeling this button, as such a label would really make me tempted to hit it

I think as a rule, life is a gift, no precious moments, and it's mystifyingly sad that spurs an argument.

I envy your mystification. Hang on to that!

forks, i do like you as an internet friend and all, but yes, it is very presumptuous to tell people that life is precious. almost condescending, in a way. not that i have anything against you specifically having a kick-ass life, but the world is full of utterly miserable people who have just had enough.

Life just *is*, imo. On one hand, I'm not going to join the voluntary extinction movement, but I'm also not a person who is religious about the sanctity of life or whatever else.

I guess I really want to be reincarnated as a rock.

i would like for you to be reincarnated as a rock

Life is the best, I would never not live it

I mean making other ppl smile is kinda the best thing ever

Life's not a song. Life isn't bliss. Life is just this: It's living.

how does the existence of utterly miserable people make saying life is precious presumptuous (not a sarcastic q just interested in what the link bw these two sentences were)? does the existence of miserable people make life less precious?

This button is impossible and should stay so

I mean if it erases everything you are, were and could be

yeah, i'm sort of baffled by all this. i know no one is intending this, but the way it's coming out is like "stating an opinion in anything but the most neutered fashion is forcing your views on others, and presumptious". makes me not want to post anything at all (i'm sure others would be cool with that)

language is violence, bro