White trick-or-treaters in blackface: C/D?

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Is a group of Jesi (Jesuses?) a 'flock' or a 'gaggle'?

"A passion of Christs"

elmo (allocryptic), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 20:45 (eighteen years ago) link

elmo just made my day

Rob Bolton (Rob Bolton), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 20:46 (eighteen years ago) link

ugh.

deej.. (deej..), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 20:50 (eighteen years ago) link

>dressing as hitler = bad<

One can yell "Chaplin! Chaplin!" when the mob sets upon you.

Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 21:13 (eighteen years ago) link

The weird thing about this thread is that Dan and Ethan are both right. I can see precisely WHY Dan is getting so het up about this, because what's offensive in the "it is not EVER acceptable EVER for a white person to dress up to make themselves look black" line is the assumption that the black person watching them will automatically cast themself as the victim. But equally, I agree with Ethan - if I saw someone walking through Shadwell dressed as a Bangladeshi I would want to kick the shit out of them. It's a matter of basic consideration for the 95% of people you might come across whose views you DO NOT HAVE A FUCKING CLUE ABOUT.

I mean, it's weird. I'm half Goan. 99% of the time I *hate* seeing white people doing comedy Indian accents. I'm not offended by Apu from the Simpsons - everyone in the Simpsons is a caricature and he's a more positive one than most of the others. Likewise, I'm not offended by Ben Kingsley in Gandhi - another tricky one, he's of Indian descent, he still LOOKS white most of the time, he's still blacked up in the role. They could have got a 'proper' Indian actor to play him. Where do you draw that line?

Matt DC (Matt DC), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 21:59 (eighteen years ago) link

Matt is also completely OTM.

Dan (Excruciating Back Pain) Perry (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 22:05 (eighteen years ago) link

Because there problem with the "I'm dressing up as someone I admire, why are you offended offended by this?" is there's a level of disinguenousness up there with that time a couple of years ago when Oops was posting pictures of cute black girls and saying "I've got a case of jungle fever", and when people called him out on it going "why? I don't see why anyone's offended by that, you're just being oversensitive!".

(Or words to that effect...)

I mean, who the fuck is anyone to dictate what other people can or cannot be offended by? It's a matter of common courtesy not to cross that line unless you have a very good reason (ie a serious political point to make). And "it's just a bit of fun" is not one of them.

Matt DC (Matt DC), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 22:06 (eighteen years ago) link

I can't believe it took 397 posts for someone to say "just a bit of fun". You didn't say "political correctness gone mad" either, did you?

Matt DC (Matt DC), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 22:07 (eighteen years ago) link

Can I just post this picture? Thanks.

http://is1.okcupid.com/users/570/250/5712517942420203273/p1097418461.jpg

Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 22:32 (eighteen years ago) link

Late to the party as usual, but Ethan, woefully, woefully OTM about Athens, Ga frat-pimps.

emilys. (emilys.), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 22:38 (eighteen years ago) link

Matt, I'm totally with you up until this point:

It's a matter of common courtesy not to cross that line

Who defines what/where that 'line' is?

Rob Bolton (Rob Bolton), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 22:43 (eighteen years ago) link

You guys talk so much that I can't tell for sure, but has this really not come up yet!?
http://www.startribune.com/stonline/images/news29/1mask0915.l.jpg

Dan I., Tuesday, 1 November 2005 22:43 (eighteen years ago) link

I got about halfway through this. The main thing that I want to add is that "blackface" is more than just dark makeup, it's the tapdancing and the vaudeville and the white circles around the eyes and everything else. So, a white person putting on makeup to more closely resemble their favorite basketball player is not "blackface." It's dark makeup. I can understand if somebody has issues with white people putting on dark makeup at Halloween, but don't call it "blackface," it's confusing.

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 22:44 (eighteen years ago) link

TRACER COMPLETELY OTM (and I said this several times and got ignored, shocker).

Dan (ILE's Invisible Man) Perry (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 22:45 (eighteen years ago) link

Yes, fair enough. I should've used different terminology since the kids meant well, as I mentioned much earlier. (Though the substance wasn't just dark makeup... it was as black as black shoe polish, and the sizes of the afros were very exagerrated. If not for the jerseys, the kids would've looked exactly like caricatures.)

Andy_K (Andy_K), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 23:13 (eighteen years ago) link

One can yell "Chaplin! Chaplin!" when the mob sets upon you.

Ron Mael! Ron Mael!

walter kranz (walterkranz), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 23:17 (eighteen years ago) link

Next year, I'm dressing up as Savion Glover.

Pleasant Plains /// (Pleasant Plains ///), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 23:29 (eighteen years ago) link

and the sizes of the afros were very exagerrated

Have you tried buying a modestly proportioned fake afro lately?

Onimo (GerryNemo), Wednesday, 2 November 2005 12:07 (eighteen years ago) link

i put fake blood on my face and shirt the other night at the halloween party, and the blood was substantially more in abundance than that you'd find on a typically heavily bloodied man.

ken c (ken c), Wednesday, 2 November 2005 12:22 (eighteen years ago) link

and that was probably offensive to real injured people

sfxxx, Wednesday, 2 November 2005 12:39 (eighteen years ago) link

if I saw someone walking through Shadwell dressed as a Bangladeshi I would want to kick the shit out of them. It's a matter of basic consideration for the 95% of people you might come across whose views you DO NOT HAVE A FUCKING CLUE ABOUT.

but this is v different from the 'blackface' scenario. these kids weren't actually in blackface, as per tracer, but the thread has kind of worked on that assumption. anyway, 'blackface' has a cultural resonance that 'randomly dressing up as a Bangladeshi' doesn't quite have. it would depend entirely on the context.

as for "the 95% of people you might come across whose views you DO NOT HAVE A FUCKING CLUE ABOUT" well, this is race-unspecific isn't it?

Theorry Henry (Enrique), Wednesday, 2 November 2005 12:45 (eighteen years ago) link

i was ignorant to the significant it held to previous axe murder events.

ken c (ken c), Wednesday, 2 November 2005 12:45 (eighteen years ago) link

well the 95% thing actually applies to most actions in life.

ken c (ken c), Wednesday, 2 November 2005 12:46 (eighteen years ago) link

sfxxx OTBM

Andy_K (Andy_K), Wednesday, 2 November 2005 13:19 (eighteen years ago) link

You're a vegetarian? Don't you pity those poor heads of lettace, ha ho.

Andy_K (Andy_K), Wednesday, 2 November 2005 13:21 (eighteen years ago) link

lettuce

Andy_K (Andy_K), Wednesday, 2 November 2005 13:21 (eighteen years ago) link

Lettuce prey.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 2 November 2005 13:22 (eighteen years ago) link

Yes

Andy_K (Andy_K), Wednesday, 2 November 2005 13:23 (eighteen years ago) link

And once again there is love.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 2 November 2005 13:28 (eighteen years ago) link

who's a vegetarian?

ken c (ken c), Wednesday, 2 November 2005 14:26 (eighteen years ago) link

My problem with comedy indian accents is that they always take over my comedy welsh accent.

Steve.n. (sjkirk), Wednesday, 2 November 2005 14:46 (eighteen years ago) link

Let's not forget -- Rob Schneider is always offensive.

elmo (allocryptic), Wednesday, 2 November 2005 14:58 (eighteen years ago) link

I should hope so.

So so Krispie (Ex Leon), Wednesday, 2 November 2005 15:01 (eighteen years ago) link

Guys, I saw a thing on the football the other day, and Brandi Chastain was wearing that Randy Moss mask, terrorising old people and Mexicans and children and egging houses and all sorts of bizarre shit, while wearing that Randy Moss mask, until Randy Moss took her down???? The real Randy Moss, not a fake one. It was really, really bizarre. Then they said something about if you buy a Randy Moss mask they give money to charity??? But I don't even know which one, I was too confused about why Brandi Chastain dressed up as Randy Moss and then terrorised a neighborhood.

Allyzay knows a little German (allyzay), Wednesday, 2 November 2005 15:06 (eighteen years ago) link

x-post -- How about that Deuce Bigalow sequel, then.

(Ally's post rather crushes mine.)

Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 2 November 2005 15:06 (eighteen years ago) link

As if I needed any more reasons to completely, totally, absolutely love both Brandy Chastain and Randy Moss! They should have psychotic babies together.

Dan (My New Utopia) Perry (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 2 November 2005 15:20 (eighteen years ago) link

ben wallace's hair isn't an afro anyway.

hstencil (hstencil), Wednesday, 2 November 2005 15:25 (eighteen years ago) link

That's pedantic, it has been during periods.

ANyway the best thing about the Randy Moss/Brandy Chastain thing was that the Mexican dude ran out and was like "THAT IS SO NOT MOSSOME!" and I was like wtf does that even mean? Real Randy Moss also squired an entire bottle of water all over Chastain. Really I'm not sure why people watch anything besides the shows that lead up to/immediately come after football games, because it's like there's no way anything that occurs in them makes sense.

Allyzay knows a little German (allyzay), Wednesday, 2 November 2005 15:51 (eighteen years ago) link

no, i mean it's a natural. i'm pretty sure he's never had an afro qua afro.

that looks pretty great, written out: afro qua afro.

anyway it's like this one interview i read with kyp from tv on the radio where the interviewer (probably white) was all "how do you get your afro to look so good?" and kyp responded with something like "it's not an afro, it's a natural. next question."

hstencil (hstencil), Wednesday, 2 November 2005 15:54 (eighteen years ago) link

Can we ball up all the energy in this thread and put it toward some kind of hex on this lowlife?

Andy_K (Andy_K), Wednesday, 2 November 2005 15:56 (eighteen years ago) link

Although that doesn't appear to be an afro, either.

Andy_K (Andy_K), Wednesday, 2 November 2005 15:57 (eighteen years ago) link

but i thought he was sporting braids again recently--hence my confusion as to what you meant, sorry stence.

Allyzay knows a little German (allyzay), Wednesday, 2 November 2005 15:58 (eighteen years ago) link

The Broncos got a break
Frisco's gettin' mad.
The Rams are on the take,
The Vikings are gettin' sad.

Garcia wants to play,
Green's thinkin' about his pop.
Daunte busted a knee
Dilfer just doesn't want to flop

Everybody knows that the dice are loaded
Everybody knows that the good guys lost
I like it,
I love it,
I can't get enough of it...

STOP THE MADNESS.

Pleasant Plains /// (Pleasant Plains ///), Wednesday, 2 November 2005 15:59 (eighteen years ago) link

here it is:

http://www.gothamist.com/archives/2004/08/26/kyp_malone_guitarist_tv_on_the_radio.php

Tell us about the afro.
I don?t have an afro. I wear my hair in a style called a natural. It?s what happens if you're black and you grow your hair long and don?t process it or braid it , I recommend it to anyone who has the genetic ability to rock it. It is a good barometer of who I need to take seriously in regards to their reaction towards it. It?s just fucking hair.

hstencil (hstencil), Wednesday, 2 November 2005 16:07 (eighteen years ago) link

Yeah man! Natural hair is fun.

Candicissima (candicissima), Wednesday, 2 November 2005 16:11 (eighteen years ago) link

lol though

'I used to have to wash it every week,' she said. 'It was just too much.'

ken c (ken c), Wednesday, 2 November 2005 16:38 (eighteen years ago) link

OK first off are basketball jerseys really 100$ now?! I mean I know throwbacks or whatever but when I was ten it was 35$ for a Jordan jersey. Of course my mom wouldn't pay for that either, but still 35 is not 100.

Second.... from the chicago tribune:


U. of C. gets rap for theme of party
White students' `thuggin' bash offends some blacks on campus and school is set to show why

By Jodi S. Cohen
Tribune higher education reporter
Published November 2, 2005


By all accounts, it was a boring party in a University of Chicago dorm, attended by fewer than 20 students who sat around listening to rap music and thinking they dressed the part.

But the gathering, called a "straight thuggin'" party, has sparked a campuswide debate about race relations on the Hyde Park campus, where about 4 percent of the undergraduate students are black.

The students at the party last month, none of whom were black, said their clothing--sideways baseball caps, gold chains and pants so low that their underwear showed--was not intended to mimic a particular race. One student wore handcuffs as he lifted a bottle wrapped in a brown paper bag. They listened to rap artists 50 Cent, Nelly and the Notorious B.I.G.

Yet fallout from the party has led U. of C. president Don Randel and other top administrators to call for an open meeting next week to discuss the campus atmosphere for minority students and staff and to ask faculty members to create programs about issues raised by the party. The president of the Hyde Park-Kenwood Community Conference plans to discuss the party's potential ramifications and the university's response at a meeting Thursday.

The fear, university officials and community members say, is that the party has reinforced the feelings of isolation that some African-American students said they already feel on a campus with relatively few black students. It also could undermine the progress that Randel has made in reaching out to largely poor and minority South Side communities that surround the university.

"The issues at stake ... are larger than this one distressing episode and raise questions about the campus climate for minority students, faculty and staff," Randel and other administrators wrote in a letter e-mailed to students last week.

`Ghetto' reference disputed

The party's theme, according to the letter, was offensive and "parodied racial stereotypes based on assumptions about economically disadvantaged members of society."

The Oct. 14 party, also referred to as a "ghetto" party, was held in a four-student suite in May House, a section of the Max Palevsky dorm. It began at about 10:30 p.m. and lasted an hour. Students talked and listened to music. Some drank beer, a violation of university policy.

The party--but not its theme--was registered with the resident heads of May House. If they had known about the theme, the party would not have been authorized, said Stephen Klass, a university vice president and dean of students.

The "straight thuggin'" gathering was the second in a series of theme parties at May House. The first party celebrated the '80s. The third, which never was held, would have focused on the '90s, said freshman Natasha Hodnett, one of the students who attended the party.

Katie Brookoff, one of the hosts, said the term "ghetto" wasn't used to describe the gathering.

But days before the party, as some freshmen were dressed in costume to take pictures to publicize the event, they stopped sophomore Eve Ewing, the only black student in May House.

"They said, `We are taking pictures for our ghetto party,'" Ewing said. "At that point, they were using the word ghetto. I don't know at what point the moniker changed. When they initially presented it, they did use that term."

After hearing about the party, about a half-dozen black students decided to check it out. They arrived too late, but ran into freshman Galen Simmons on their way to the suite. He said he told them that they "would have been the most thuggin' people there," and said he meant it as a compliment.

"It was meant to say that they had appropriate clothes for the theme of the party," said Simmons, of New York City. He said that "most of us were ignorant about how our comments or actions might be taken," and suggested that the university do a better job of teaching new students about racial tensions on campus and in the community.

Several black students said they were offended by the party and by pictures that temporarily were posted on a Web site.

`No bad intentions'

"I was just totally flabbergasted," said sophomore Kristiana Colon of Chicago, who graduated from Whitney Young High School in Chicago. "If that is what they think hip-hop looks like or black people look like, that is a serious problem."

Colon, one of the students who showed up late to the party, also found it offensive that a group of mostly whites would romanticize a "thug" culture.
Hodnett said "there were no bad intentions at all" and the party was intended to imitate pop culture, not objectify a group of people.

"In our opinions, be they ignorant or not, everyone thought that it was a cross-culture thing and it was more mocking MTV culture and dressing up in baggy clothes and listening to rap or hip-hop music," said Hodnett, of Palatine. "We are being used as guinea pigs and being used to make a statement about the racial dynamics on campus."

Klass, the dean of students, would not say whether any students faced disciplinary action, but Brookoff said they hadn't. He said the party has sparked a needed discussion, to be held Tuesday at Hutchinson Commons, about how to improve the campus climate for minorities.

There are relatively few black students at U. of C. compared to the nearby neighborhoods. Of the 4,667 students enrolled in the undergraduate college this fall, 4 percent, or 192 students, are African-American.

"The issues here are broader than the party.... The real issue here is what are the conditions that minority students and faculty face on a regular basis," Klass said. "This is a bit of an ah-ha moment. They are saying this is an example of the kinds of things that students of color have to face not just on campus but everywhere."

Community ties questioned

Faculty and residents of Hyde Park also said they wondered whether the party would affect campus-community relations. Randel has led efforts in recent years to improve relations with the South Side community, including opening a second charter school this fall and three more schools in coming years.

"The young people, if they are venturing out of campus, it is not to any of the communities that they were making fun of. They are not seeing any of the people who they think would be thugs," said Rolisa Tutwyler, who works at the university and lives in Hyde Park.

Amanda Lewis, a professor of sociology and African-American studies at the University of Illinois at Chicago, said parties like the one at U. of C. occur when people use cultural symbols and slang terms like "ghetto" and "thuggin'" without understanding the historical and societal significance.

"Universities have more work to do to make sure students have a realistic understanding of the world we live in," Lewis said.

Brookoff, who grew up in Memphis and had been a student at U. of C. for less than a month, said she has received a crash course on race relations.

"I know most of us are learning more about respect and being sensitive to other people," she said. "We want everyone to feel welcome around here."

deej.. (deej..), Wednesday, 2 November 2005 16:38 (eighteen years ago) link

Ugh.

Candicissima (candicissima), Wednesday, 2 November 2005 17:06 (eighteen years ago) link

...the Hyde Park campus, where about 4 percent of the undergraduate students are black.

it's seriously that low? that's fucking pathetic, esp. given its location.

hstencil (hstencil), Wednesday, 2 November 2005 17:11 (eighteen years ago) link

I can't believe nobody called Dan for his "Finally, don't fucking tell me what I should find offensive, white boy" earlier in the thread. Dan, what do you think gives you the right to call a white person that any more than we've got the right to call you "n*****r"?

........, Wednesday, 2 November 2005 17:21 (eighteen years ago) link


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