Is it OK to say someone looks like Talvin Singh in the privacy of an internet message board?
― Limoncello Carlin (The stickman from the hilarious "xkcd" comics), Thursday, 5 February 2009 12:25 (fifteen years ago) link
Let's just have a society where people say nothing and communicate with nobody else because they're scared to say anything. That'll be a brave but offence-free future.
― Bernard Braden Misreads Stephen Leacock (Marcello Carlin), Thursday, 5 February 2009 12:26 (fifteen years ago) link
Or we could have one where people think before speaking and manage to have conversations not involving golliwog references. Surely not beyond most of us?
― super shareaholic firefox add (onimo), Thursday, 5 February 2009 12:27 (fifteen years ago) link
And of course the golliwog non-incident/non-scandal is merely yet another mask for the media to hide behind in preference to talking about real issues.
― Bernard Braden Misreads Stephen Leacock (Marcello Carlin), Thursday, 5 February 2009 12:27 (fifteen years ago) link
Stupid racist twat loses job. I don't lose any sleep.
― Vicious Cop Kills Gentle Fool (Tom D.), Thursday, 5 February 2009 12:28 (fifteen years ago) link
erm onimo, no diss but
OMG I WANT THIS AMAZING RONALDINHO BOTTLE OPENER
― special guest stars mark bronson, Thursday, 5 February 2009 12:29 (fifteen years ago) link
I must admit I have never seen any meaningful exploration of the complex issues behind racism on the BBC.
― Holy Suffering Gobi Desert Clit Nun (Matt DC), Thursday, 5 February 2009 12:29 (fifteen years ago) link
In that thread (that I hoped never to read again) I accepted that for some people they instantly saw that as a racist caricature but that I didn't. I also accepted that not intending to offend someone doesn't mean you're not offending them. I saw it instantly as "lol big teeth" which is pretty much a standard Ronaldinho zing in the UK then attempted to be more considered in my opinion when the thread blew up.
I learned some lessons there about how one might not be aware something is offensive. Thatcher's been utterly remorseless and trying to make the big story into some kind of betrayal of confidence, and Marcello agrees. I think there's a difference, but still - mea culpa, to an extent.xp
― super shareaholic firefox add (onimo), Thursday, 5 February 2009 12:40 (fifteen years ago) link
you're getting it backward. The woman made a racist comment in her workplace, was fired for it, and released an apology that basically went "i'm sorry if you're butthurt but think about how much the bbc have hurt me by revealing that, in my workplace, when asked to retract a racist comment and apologise for it, i did not". Racism is a real issue; not being willing to accept that what you have said is offensive is a real issue; trying to smokescreen your own offensive behaviour with 'oh, disgusting, the bbc, more leaks than thames water' dailymailisms is a real issue as it's part of an entire culture of faux-naïve buck-passing where the most egregious behaviour can be handwaved away with a "oh well i'm not politically correct, me". Carol Thatcher was working for the One Show as a journalist, as a person who goes around the country talking to people: if she's too dippy to recognise that to say someone looks like a golliwog is insulting, if she's the kind of person who believes it's 'safe' to use racially dubious terms if she's in a green room surrounded by other white people, if she's not got the basic sense to not use offensive terms in conversation (a person who talks for a living!), then she shouldn't have been doing that job anyway. And that's a real issue: a basic lack of concern for other people and their feelings, displayed by a person in public life.
what is not a real issue: paranoid wannabe-libertarian fantasies about a world in which people are silenced for speaking their minds.
― c sharp major, Thursday, 5 February 2009 14:12 (fifteen years ago) link
i'm so glad i never saw the bottle opener thread at the time...feel so deeply embarrassed at so many of the brits being so clueless on it.
― lex pretend, Thursday, 5 February 2009 14:16 (fifteen years ago) link
why because you care about/WANT to feel national pride?
― O Supermanchiros (blueski), Thursday, 5 February 2009 14:22 (fifteen years ago) link
i'm so glad i never saw the bottle opener thread at the time
You posted on it.
C Sharp Major 100% on the money here.
― Holy Suffering Gobi Desert Clit Nun (Matt DC), Thursday, 5 February 2009 14:24 (fifteen years ago) link
Lex doesn't even know who Lex is!
― Vicious Cop Kills Gentle Fool (Tom D.), Thursday, 5 February 2009 14:32 (fifteen years ago) link
i meant, i was glad i wasn't on it at the time it was kicking off and getting clusterfucky.
― lex pretend, Thursday, 5 February 2009 14:33 (fifteen years ago) link
Ah, nice to see that the spirit of Rik Out Of The Young Ones is alive and well...
The correct course of action would have been for her colleagues to smile, shake their heads, say to themselves, "ah well, that's Carol" and get on with their lives. As a freelancer, she was not "sacked."
Racism certainly is a very real issue, and is cheapened and trivialised by the thoughtless flinging about of pseudo-moralistic outrage on the part of people who should know better but of course are paid large sums of money by the meejah to be pseudo-outraged.
There is a pronounced difference between political extremists who actively seek to stir up discord, hatred and conflict and the perhaps thoughtless but ultimately harmless remarks of people whose upbringing and set of values are different from ours. If we sacked everybody from every workplace who made thoughtless comments or remarks there would be 40 million unemployed.
Unfortunately, since humans are human and not perfectly programmed robots, and therefore biased, prejudiced and unthinking in many senses, the best course of action is to come to terms with the fact that human beings are what they are, distinguish actual evil from silly, jokey remarks and get over ourselves.
As for "a world in which people are silenced for speaking their minds," isn't that exactly what the real extremists want?
― Bernard Braden Misreads Stephen Leacock (Marcello Carlin), Thursday, 5 February 2009 14:56 (fifteen years ago) link
http://www.blogcdn.com/www.tmz.com/media/2009/02/0202_miley_cyrus.jpg
― Limoncello Carlin (The stickman from the hilarious "xkcd" comics), Thursday, 5 February 2009 14:59 (fifteen years ago) link
ah well, that's Marcello
*shakes head*
― super shareaholic firefox add (onimo), Thursday, 5 February 2009 14:59 (fifteen years ago) link
don't think reposting stuff from Jagger's facebook is cool
― Glans Kafka (MPx4A), Thursday, 5 February 2009 15:00 (fifteen years ago) link
lol "actual evil"
― O Supermanchiros (blueski), Thursday, 5 February 2009 15:00 (fifteen years ago) link
ie retail staff showing insufficient deference
― Glans Kafka (MPx4A), Thursday, 5 February 2009 15:01 (fifteen years ago) link
ie2 people running crappy lapland theme parks
― super shareaholic firefox add (onimo), Thursday, 5 February 2009 15:03 (fifteen years ago) link
Marcello, if you don't deem referring to someone as a "golliwog" in the workplace a sackable offence, can you give us an example of language that you would find unacceptable? Or is, in your view, all legislation against so-called hate speech in the workplace wrongheaded?
― zero learnt from nero (Neil S), Thursday, 5 February 2009 15:06 (fifteen years ago) link
There is a pronounced difference between political extremists who actively seek to stir up discord, hatred and conflict
Weren't you calling out the media for having leaked the BNP membership list not so long ago? Perhaps they're only stirring up discord, hatred and conflict in the privacy of their own homes.
― Holy Suffering Gobi Desert Clit Nun (Matt DC), Thursday, 5 February 2009 15:07 (fifteen years ago) link
Referring to someone as a golliwog "in the workplace" is different from making a jokey, off-the-cuff reference in a private conversation.
― Bernard Braden Misreads Stephen Leacock (Marcello Carlin), Thursday, 5 February 2009 15:09 (fifteen years ago) link
A private conversation, with colleagues, in the workplace.
― zero learnt from nero (Neil S), Thursday, 5 February 2009 15:10 (fifteen years ago) link
So, was it a private conv, or a "workplace" environment? (xpost fwiw)
― Mark G, Thursday, 5 February 2009 15:10 (fifteen years ago) link
Similarly, membership of a political party, however distasteful you might find it, is a matter of concern only to the member unless they decide to make it public and there are pretty firm rules about the latter in most workplaces.
― Bernard Braden Misreads Stephen Leacock (Marcello Carlin), Thursday, 5 February 2009 15:10 (fifteen years ago) link
http://www.p-jones.demon.co.uk/images/flip_lg_wht.gif
― Limoncello Carlin (The stickman from the hilarious "xkcd" comics), Thursday, 5 February 2009 15:12 (fifteen years ago) link
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-1135359/MELANIE-PHILLIPS-The-age-snitch--public-sector-informers-creating-Stasi-Britain-.html
― Holy Suffering Gobi Desert Clit Nun (Matt DC), Thursday, 5 February 2009 15:13 (fifteen years ago) link
what's that gossip column in the londonpaper called again? oh yeah, The Green Room. doesn't sound like the kind of place you can ever have a private conversation in.
― O Supermanchiros (blueski), Thursday, 5 February 2009 15:15 (fifteen years ago) link
The correct course of action would have been for her colleagues to smile, shake their heads, say to themselves, "ah well, that's Carol" and get on with their lives.
You can do that if you like, Marcello, I certainly wouldn't do that. Admittedly I wouldn't run to my boss and snitch either.
― Vicious Cop Kills Gentle Fool (Tom D.), Thursday, 5 February 2009 15:16 (fifteen years ago) link
More...GEOFFREY WANSELL: Daft Carol just doesn't give a damnSTEPHEN GLOVER: The BBC is now run by a narrow sect, blind to the good sense and values of those it servesMAIL COMMENT: The BBC is a floundering giant with no moral senseRICHARD LITTLEJOHN: Christians haven't got a prayer in 'diversity' Britain...MELANIE PHILLIPS: British police running away from Muslim demonstrators, a Christian nurse facing the sack for offering to pray for a patient - this is the way a society diesROBIN PAGE'S BLOG: The One Show made me kill three squirrels and Adrian Chiles said 'don't tell anyone'
― Limoncello Carlin (The stickman from the hilarious "xkcd" comics), Thursday, 5 February 2009 15:16 (fifteen years ago) link
ROBIN PAGE'S BLOG: The One Show made me kill three squirrels and Adrian Chiles said 'don't tell anyone'ROBIN PAGE'S BLOG: The One Show made me kill three squirrels and Adrian Chiles said 'don't tell anyone'
ROBIN PAGE'S BLOG: The One Show made me kill three squirrels and Adrian Chiles said 'don't tell anyone'
wait, you didn't make that up?
― special guest stars mark bronson, Thursday, 5 February 2009 15:18 (fifteen years ago) link
bloody hell why is the photo of C Thatcher on that Philips article link so enormous?
― O Supermanchiros (blueski), Thursday, 5 February 2009 15:20 (fifteen years ago) link
http://furniture.dailymail.co.uk/i/blogs/blog_robinpage_masthead.jpg
Okay WAU at this.
― Holy Suffering Gobi Desert Clit Nun (Matt DC), Thursday, 5 February 2009 15:20 (fifteen years ago) link
Robin Page is the one who got arrested for hate preaching at a Countryside Alliance march, right?
― Limoncello Carlin (The stickman from the hilarious "xkcd" comics), Thursday, 5 February 2009 15:21 (fifteen years ago) link
Likes the odd drink, does he?
― Vicious Cop Kills Gentle Fool (Tom D.), Thursday, 5 February 2009 15:21 (fifteen years ago) link
"That the One Show should be involved in all this nonsense is totally unsurprising. Last year I was invited onto it to talk about grey squirrels – yes I want them severely controlled. Oddly, the pro-squirrel guest was the urban Anika Rice. The famous “Green Room” was full of luvvies being luvvies – telling each other what they had done, where they had been and how absolutely luvvy they all were. I read a book.
Earlier in the day a researcher had asked me what I would do to control grey squirrels – “eat them”, I replied. I have eaten them casseroled, as a burger and as squirrel pate.
“Will you get us a squirrel to eat on the programme?” they asked. In next to no time a gamekeeper friend had three squirrels dressed and jointed, ready for the oven.
Then came the politically correct message; “Oh it has been decided that you can’t eat squirrel on the show, it is wrong to kill animals for entertainment”. So the One Show had caused three squirrels to be killed for no reason at all. The odd thing about this of course is the fact that the BBC is almost Cookery Programmed out with Ready Steady Cook etc – all using meat as part of their “entertainment”. Perhaps BBC executives don’t realise that beef, lamb and pork are just as much “animal” as squirrels.
After the programmes, the main presenter, the rather characterless, bland, Adrian Chiles said:” You won’t write about this will you Robin?” Why not? What a shower – and was it you Adrian who behaved so despicably against Carol Thatcher – were you the INFORMER?
The one good thing about the programme was that Anneka Rice appeared to know nothing about squirrels, and the next day “Save Our Squirrels” the organisation fighting for red squirrels asked me to be their Patron. That of course will teach the BBC absolutely nothing.
So Dave, come on – for goodness sake organise a BBC licence boycott – if enough people did it the Government would have to take action against the Bigots Broadcasting Corporation. If Dastardly Dave is too much of a wimp – how about the Mail leading the way?"
― Holy Suffering Gobi Desert Clit Nun (Matt DC), Thursday, 5 February 2009 15:22 (fifteen years ago) link
first tv news reports, now not even internet banners are free from a tramp wandering into the foreground
― O Supermanchiros (blueski), Thursday, 5 February 2009 15:22 (fifteen years ago) link
― Limoncello Carlin (The stickman from the hilarious "xkcd" comics), Thursday, 5 February 2009 15:21 (1 minute ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
He won a wrongful arrest case in the end, apparently:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1575619/Robin-Page-compensated-over-%27race%27-arrest.html
Mr Page, 64, a farmer, conservationist, columnist for The Daily Telegraph, and the chairman of the Countryside Restoration Trust, became the focus of police attention after his comments at a country fair in September 2002.
He claims that in order to gain the attention of listeners at the gathering in Frampton-upon-Severn, Glos, he started in a "light-hearted fashion".
His opening remark was: "If you are a black, vegetarian, Muslim, asylum-seeking, one-legged lesbian lorry driver, I want the same rights as you."
― joe, Thursday, 5 February 2009 15:24 (fifteen years ago) link
Went downhill from there.
― zero learnt from nero (Neil S), Thursday, 5 February 2009 15:25 (fifteen years ago) link
What a card
― Vicious Cop Kills Gentle Fool (Tom D.), Thursday, 5 February 2009 15:27 (fifteen years ago) link
It was a private country fair.
― super shareaholic firefox add (onimo), Thursday, 5 February 2009 15:29 (fifteen years ago) link
ah well, that's Robin
― Vicious Cop Kills Gentle Fool (Tom D.), Thursday, 5 February 2009 15:30 (fifteen years ago) link
Who says you haven't anyway? I'm he would answer BRUSSELS EUROCRATS or some other straw man.
― zero learnt from nero (Neil S), Thursday, 5 February 2009 15:32 (fifteen years ago) link
What's he got against lorry drivers anyway?
― Vicious Cop Kills Gentle Fool (Tom D.), Thursday, 5 February 2009 15:33 (fifteen years ago) link
you'd think those gay eurocrats would like their bananas BENT but oh no...
― super shareaholic firefox add (onimo), Thursday, 5 February 2009 15:34 (fifteen years ago) link
they kill his favourite prostitutes xp
― O Supermanchiros (blueski), Thursday, 5 February 2009 15:34 (fifteen years ago) link
He prefers white van men xpost
― zero learnt from nero (Neil S), Thursday, 5 February 2009 15:34 (fifteen years ago) link