Israel to World: "Suck It."

ok, i really only mentioned it bc you said "I'd take issue with the nebulous notion of the US pushing birth control in Africa."

Well yeah I said "nebulous' because there was a very recent time where America didn't want to push it.

Governmentally, I should say not private.

"pushing birth control in Africa" just read as too nebulously in line with intimations of eugenics, which is why I bristled.

Well that's an issue as well, it I was just wondering how anyone could blithely skate by such a huge debate.

I've run out of free Haaretz articles for the month but this looks relevant:

http://www.haaretz.com/blogs/routine-emergencies/ethiopian-women-and-birth-control-when-a-scoop-becomes-a-smear.premium-1.500341

The story of the dramatic drop in the birthrates of the Ethiopian Israeli community over the past decade and why it happened was a story that needed to be told. Those on the ground who work with the Ethiopian community who first observed and researched the phenomenon and Gal Gabai, the excellent television journalist whose show “Vacuum,” broke the story to the Israeli public, deserve credit for pulling the story out of the realm of rumor and shadows.

However - as in the game of telephone, when the more a story is repeated, the more warped and distorted it becomes - the international coverage of this scandal is transforming a tale insensitivity, cultural condescension and, yes, perhaps a certain level of racism, into some kind of villainous genocidal plot of sterilization aimed at ethnic and racial cleansing.

What the original television program uncovered is an insensitivity to a traditional culture and imposing Western norms in what likely began as a well-meaning attempt to help families make an easier adjustment to the shock that was ahead of them when they moved to Israel and once they arrived. The stories women told painted a picture of being coaxed and strongly convinced that they should subject themselves to a Depo-Provera birth control shot every three months, without being offered other methods of family planning. They also recounted being told in educational workshops that Israelis had “small families” and that having many children in Israel would “make their life difficult.” Some said they were led to believe they would not be permitted to emigrate if they did not submit to the shots, others said that their objections to receiving them were ignored. Some women said they weren’t aware the shots were birth control - they thought they were vaccinations, and others said their complaints about disturbing side effects were ignored.

I found a cache'd version. Here's some more:

Gamzu’s action took place after a group of six human rights organizations requested that the Ministry “adopt a number of steps to ensure the practice will not continue” including “making enquiries about the medical condition of each woman and whether the drug is suitable for her circumstances, not to provide any injections without informing the women of the possible side-effects of the drug and providing information about alternative contraceptive methods” and “that a note be included in the patient’s medical records recording that conversation took place” and urged Gamzu “consider examining the background to the practice and to collect updated figures on the use of the contraceptive.”

It is was an appropriate action to take and his quick response was in order, so as to bring birth control in the Ethiopian community should be in line with the rest of Israeli women, making them in control of their decisions with full information as to the alternatives.

But the story has taken on a life of its own internationally. The words “forced” and “coercion” are being thrown around in the international coverage. Images of Mengele-level persecution of clueless, helpless victims being marched by force from camps to clinics to receive their injections have been conjured up, as the story has travelled from the Israeli media to the national mainstream media, to international and niche publications. The headlines run from the oversimplified to deliberately twisted:

Israel admits forcing birth control shots on Ethiopian women

Israel: Discrimination against Ethiopian Jews

Israel coerced Ethiopian women into taking contraceptive jabs

Israel Admits “Shameful” Birth Control Drug Injected in “Unaware” Ethiopian Jews

The most hostile coverage refers inaccurately to “sterilization” - conveniently ignoring the fact that Depo-Provera is a three-month birth control injection, for which women must voluntarily go to a clinic to receive the shots. It is insulting to the intelligence of Ethiopian women to believe that they did this for years at a time against their will. Certainly, if there was a nefarious plot to stop them from having babies, there would have been a more efficient way to do it.

I believe the women who told their stories to Gal Gabbai. I also believe that the vast majority of the Ethiopian women who received Depo-Provera were aware it was birth control and received it willingly, wanting to be in control of deciding when to get pregnant. And some of them - it is unclear how many - preferred being injected at a clinic rather than having to take pills daily in the presence of other family members - husbands or mothers or in-laws - who might disapprove of that decision. I also believe that those who did not want to receive the shots and truly wanted to become pregnant were smart enough to stop receiving them. At least some of the drop in these birthrate is attributable to access to birth control and control over their childbearing that these women wanted.

The most hostile coverage refers inaccurately to “sterilization” - conveniently ignoring the fact that Depo-Provera is a three-month birth control injection, for which women must voluntarily go to a clinic to receive the shots. It is insulting to the intelligence of Ethiopian women to believe that they did this for years at a time against their will. Certainly, if there was a nefarious plot to stop them from having babies, there would have been a more efficient way to do it.

Duh.

FYI Depo has a lot of side effects and isn't recommended for women with other options because of them. It can bring on some big changes to your body/cycle, incl loss of libido, flattening of emotional life, plus it turns out to be dangerous to bone mass with long-term use. It does have a very high "normal usage" effectiveness rate since there's basically nothing for the individual to do differently. But it's not a comfortable choice for most women.

In theory I can understand getting it because of the lifestyle issues, ie it can be secret and no one can force you to undo it, but one might definitely find that the trade-off was not acceptable overall.

I don't have an opinion about whether a particular woman should or shouldn't use Depo - and hopefully this whole tumult will result in any woman considering it making a careful informed decision (if they had not already).

Depo is really no more potentially harmful than most chemical birth control. that it was Depo specifically and not some other medicine is the least relevant aspect of this whole controversy.

Sort of. Because it's administered by injection without further involvement from the patient and lasts for 3 mos, it is unlike most/any other bc methods because you have no control over your experience of it after that. Far more than the alternatives, it can feel like or be cast as something that is done TO you.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2013/0130/breaking43.html

i don't know how much i believe anyone here, which is p much my default position tbh

Seems like a better fit for the anti-semitism thread. Again, not to thread police but I kinda hate this thread. Let's keep it for inflammatory stories about Israeli genocide and eugenics campaigns?

Story about the eugenics accusations: http://www.presspectiva.org.il/cgi-webaxy/item?243
Google translate here: http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=iw&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.presspectiva.org.il%2Fcgi-webaxy%2Fitem%3F243&act=url

http://www.haaretz.com/news/national/israel-introduces-palestinian-only-bus-lines-following-complaints-from-jewish-settlers-1.506869

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/17/magazine/is-this-where-the-third-intifada-will-start.html?ref=magazine&_r=0

“We see our stones as our message,” Bassem explained. The message they carried, he said, was “We don’t accept you.” While Bassem spoke admiringly of Mahatma Gandhi, he didn’t worry over whether stone-throwing counted as violence. The question annoyed him: Israel uses far greater and more lethal force on a regular basis, he pointed out, without being asked to clarify its attitude toward violence. If the loincloth functioned as the sign of Gandhi’s resistance, of India’s nakedness in front of British colonial might, Bassem said, “Our sign is the stone.” The weekly clashes with the I.D.F. were hence in part symbolic. The stones were not just flinty yellow rocks, but symbols of defiance, of a refusal to submit to occupation, regardless of the odds.

cf Stones thrown at vehicles near Ariel caused a serious crash that left a toddler fighting for her life.

just a little symbolic toddler killing. no biggie:
http://bbcwatch.org/2013/03/16/bbc-fails-to-report-on-route-5-terror-attack/

yeah the twitter chatter seems to be very much focused on the rock-throwing

seems like a bit of a stretch to compare throwing stones at the military to throwing stones at civilian cars on the highway tho

i think the point is that the article author is living in a fantasy world where intifadas are romantic resistances against military oppressions when the last two intifadas (and a third if it happened - god forbid) mostly involve the murder of civilians.

hes pretty clear about the human cost of the intifadas, i think

The losses of the second intifada were enormous. Nearly 5,000 Palestinians and more than 1,000 Israelis died. Israeli assassination campaigns and the I.D.F.’s siege of West Bank cities left the Palestinian leadership decimated and discouraged. By the end of 2005, Yasir Arafat was dead, Israel had pulled its troops and settlers out of Gaza and the Palestinian Authority president, Mahmoud Abbas, had reached a truce with Prime Minister Ariel Sharon. The uprising sputtered out. The economy was ruined, Gaza and the West Bank were more isolated from each other than ever, and Palestinians were divided, defeated and exhausted.

doesnt sound too romantic. the headline is 'grabby' and not really very representative of the article content

IDF also doesnt do itself any favors

They drove us to the old British police station in the I.D.F. base in Halamish. While I was sitting on a bench, an I.D.F. spokesman called my cellphone to inform me that no journalists with press cards had been detained in Nabi Saleh. I disagreed. (The next day, according to Agence France-Presse, the I.D.F. denied I had been arrested.) A half-hour later, an officer escorted me to the gate.

tbh I only scanned the piece. I'm pretty exhausted by the recent spate of Third Intifada articles (mostly coming from UK media but also Haaretz) that seem like their breathlessly anticipating the resumption of all out warfare in the West Bank. if this article doesn't encourage it that's promising bc it seems supremely irresponsible to me to cheerlead a third intifada, even if you are hoping to get good copy out of it.

they're* breathlessly

like this: http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/why-hasn-t-a-third-intifada-broken-out-yet-among-the-palestinians.premium-1.506112

I always forget why these two groups of people are fighting in the first place.

this is the real Israel to World: "Suck It." NYT article of the week btw: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/17/world/middleeast/in-jerusalem-jewish-apartments-in-arab-neighborhoods-complicate-issue.html

which i think is a good idea - dividing jerusalem was always a terrible concept (and as the article itself admits, largely impossible after '68)

After Gilad Shalit, an Israeli soldier kidnapped in the Gaza Strip, was released in late 2011 in exchange for 1,000 Palestinian prisoners, Mr. Zaghal said, some Jews threw stones and water at people celebrating in the street, and made a big sign declaring, “One Jew is Worth 1,000 Arabs.”

“Everyone knows they don’t love us and we don’t love them,” Mr. Zaghal, 32, said. “They think that this is their place and this is their land, but this is not the case. We are here and we are staying here, but they won’t. There are people here who won’t let them.”

crazy

http://thisongoingwar.blogspot.co.il/2013/03/17-mar-13-little-village-in-hills-and.html

that rings kinda hollow to me

the complaints are what, that

1) bassem tamimi doesnt sufficiently make a commitment to nonviolence because he says palestinians still have the right to armed resistance
2) article doesn't spend enough time condemning terrorism, and the nytimes doesnt cover israeli victims often enough, "the arab world" treats a terrorist from the village as a celebrity
3) the rock throwing

seems unlikely that there is a article that coulve been written about nabi saleh that wouldve been satisfactory to the roths unless it focused entirely on the apparent adoration of its residents for ahlam tamimi. not that i blame them! but its not the strongest rebuttal

doesn't sufficiently make a commitment to nonviolence bc they have a long history of violence, still glorify bombers, and continue to engage in violent resistance. the non-violence canard is just a smokescreen.

who is "they" here, the residents of nabi saleh? not having "a long history of violence" as a condition of commitment means that there will never be palestinians with a sufficient commitment to nonviolence

& anyway the non-violence "canard" is a "smokescreen" for... what, exactly? what is it hiding?

yes, the residents of nabi saleh. and you can't commit violent acts and glorify previous violent acts and then claim that you're committed to nonviolence.

there's a phenomenon of palestinian activists claiming one thing (like a commitment to nonviolence) during interviews w/ western media and then saying something different in arabic. isn't this entire third intifada thing pegged to demands to release palestinian prisoners - many of whom are in jail for violent acts against civilians? even if nabi saleh were engaging in non-violent protests, they're doing so for the purpose of getting violent terrorists released from prison.

what 'third intifada thing'? that's more or less a frame forced on the article by the author and the editors.

Nabi Saleh, Bassem hoped, could model a form of resistance for the rest of the West Bank. The goal was to demonstrate that it was still possible to struggle and to do so without taking up arms, so that when the spark came, if it came, resistance might spread as it had during the first intifada. “If there is a third intifada,” he said, “we want to be the ones who started it.”

Bassem saw three options. “To be silent is to accept the situation,” he said, “and we don’t accept the situation.” Fighting with guns and bombs could only bring catastrophe. Israel was vastly more powerful, he said. “But by popular resistance, we can push its power aside.”

this is the only mention of it in the piece

& anyway im open to the idea that bassem tamimi is endorsing violence in arabic while condemning it in english--but i havent seen that anyway, and it would be a *much* stronger refutation of the nyt mag article than stuff about stone-throwing, at least to me and imo

ok that's fair. i can't tell to what extent the third intifada meme is being pushed by the media and to what extent it's being pushed by actual palestinian activists. i've certainly heard it a lot over the last month.

but certainly if bassem tamimi is speaking for the community (and that's the role I believe the NYT is placing him in) it's legitimate to question exactly how committed to nonviolence nabi saleh is. even if he is himself committed to nonviolence - spotlighting one particular voice when there's a mess of contradictory evidence is the problem i think.

Show me any nonviolent resistance group in history and I'll find you members who had previously advocated or even continued to advocate violence. Nonviolence is always in part a calculated decision by a group with less capacity for force. Accusing Palestinians of having a strategy isn't in itself all that damning.

ok, but this is the spokesman for nonviolent protest who has been arrested for promoting rock throwing, whose village continues to throw rocks at israeli cars + vehicles, and whose village has a long history of committing terrorist acts (including the Sbarro bombing) and continues to glorify those terrorists. the standard for being praised for nonviolence should be a little higher than putting up a billboard and conducting an interview.