A thread for JUSTIFIED, a TV show on FX starring Timothy Olyphant

forks otm: i'm really impressed with how many threads they've got going...and they just keep adding new ones! olympic storytelling, lol

yeah, this is some peak efficiency shit going on here where everything moves so swiftly and is so carefully calibrated that you're surprised when the episodes over

See also: Elmore Leonard.

i probably wound up watching s3 and s4 so far in a two week period. It's funny how, obviously, a lot has happened in that period, and on another level, not much. "A bunch of criminals tried to outsmart each other, Raylan and Boyd got caught up in it, but managed to get out ok."

The only real evolution is how everyone at the Marshal's office just seems to accept they're going to be focused on Raylan's shit now, and not get little one-off episodes about other work they allegedly do.

thank god; the one offs with those guys mostly suck
except for the chief, who is cool

i miss when i didn't know whether a character would come back or not. ie, stephen root initially seemed like a one off. but i don't think anything's particularly "sucked" in any season.

yeah i didn't think they sucked

I actually really like the way the other marshals connect to the show, whether underscoring latent racism or the bond of army experience or at the very least the leverage of power that being a local boy always provides, no matter how qualified the alternative.

i liked how ron eldard said "oh." when the other marshall dude asked him where he served

what i really like about justified is they realized they painted themselves into a corner with winona and ava so they just rewrote both characters from scratch and then plotted from there. at the time it pissed me off but it's paid off handsomely

solo character ep i thought kinda sucked: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1649574/

Yeah that one is prob the weakest single ep they've done, though as I recall it still has a couple of good moments.

I'm always happy with more Rachel.

im always amazed that anybody ever knows any of the names of any of the characters in tv shows except maybe the lead

xxxpost -- that was in reference to the one-offs.

i guess in a sense those one-offs worked to help establish a world, and once they did that, it's kind of hard to bring in new characters other than have them be traveling hooligans either low on the totem pole, or from up high interacting with wynn duffy. even bringing in patton oswalt required this whole "oh hey i'm the constable you've never met before but i've been here the whole time" exposition (i similarly love that the motivating incident for s4 appears to be a serious marshal's office case coincidentally found in RAYLAN'S DAD's WALL).

still, i just love the idea of a show so confident that it can throw in little one-off tangents that have only the slightest obvious connection to the ongoing narrative.

yeah, this is some peak efficiency shit going on here where everything moves so swiftly and is so carefully calibrated that you're surprised when the episodes over
See also: Elmore Leonard.

― Josh in Chicago, Saturday, 9 February 2013 18:49 (1 week ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Not trying to challops here, but I think this show does Leonard better than Leonard does.

Leonard has said as much, at least as far as this character goes. That's why he brought him back for another book.

Thought the most recent episode was relatively week. a lot of plot, but not a lot of motion, and it seemed really short when it ended abruptly with the proposal. Or should I say, proposal slash death warrant.

Kind of loved the proposal scene, but yeah, the rest was a bit "off," even the dialogue.

was particularly bummed to have a new group of thugs introduced and dispatched without actually getting to know them at all. Also disquieted by the decision to bring a showkiller like Gerald McRaney into the Rogues' Gallery instead of another 90s indie cinema figure.

but, y'know, #season4problems

I'd have been happy with McRaney as Drew Thompson, actually. love that dude and thought he was a bit wasted here.

Incidentally, the sheer number of supremely entertaining and/or superlative adaptations based on or inspired by Leonard books and stories sort of belies the supposition that "Justified" is uniquely special. "Out of Sight," "Hombre," "3:10 to Yuma," "Get Shorty," "52 Pickup" etc. - Leonard FTW.

making an entertaining TV show inspired by a short story is pretty different than making a film

When they tried to embellish the world of Get Shorty we got Be Cool.

Yeah, but there's more shit going down behind the scenes in a major Hollywood production than a relatively under the radar show. Point being, "Justified" has been pretty consistent from episode one, and that's the one based on the story. There hasn't been a lot of character development or anything. "Justified" has been awesome and awesomely entertaining just running around in circles

Also, honestly, "Get Shorty" was directed by Barry Sonnenfeld with a script by Scott Frank, with an across the board A-list cast. "Be Cool" is pretty much B-list across the board, from the director down. Even Travolta had just done "Pulp Fiction" when "Get Shorty" came out. "Be Cool" followed "The Punished," among many pieces of late career shit. Never read "Be Cool" the book, but I have a feeling the source material was not the problem.

"The Punisher," sorry. But yeah, adapting anything and keeping it good is tough. But Leonard's characters and writing does a lot of the heavy lifting.

point is 36 hours based on an elmore leonard story is uniquely special even if a lot of 2 hour adaptations are out there

Sure, but again, not a lot of range in this show, great or no. It's pretty much the same episode over and over, bless its heart.

really don't see the complaint about range. huge rotating cast of bit players, as we've been discussing. ongoing arcs with boyd and arlo. really different villains from season to season. and some episodes, raylan doesn't even shoot anyone!

Raylan hasn't shot anyone since late last season!

It seems to me to have more range than almost everything else on tv at the moment...

I'm not complaining! About range or anything else. I love the show as is. But the dynamic with Boyd, once he settled into his current role c. the prison stint, has been pretty consistent, as have most of the other relationships/characters. I suppose Eva has changed a bunch, but Arlo et al. have been consistent, as have all the cops. As far as Raylan goes, yeah, not shooting people vs. shooting them is about the extent of his range.

It seems to me to have more range than almost everything else on tv at the moment...

No way. There's more range on, say, "Walking Dead" or "Breaking Bad" or whatever else you consider "at the moment." I'd say "Justified" has about as much range as "Archer." But it is still A+ entertainment, so no harm, no foul, keep it going, "Justified." Pure fun, love it.

Justified has way more range than Walking Dead, and prob about as much as BBad.

Less than Breaking Bad and Mad Men. And Community. More than everything else. But yeah, no harm done if you disagree, I guess.

Like, yeah, sure, it's "fun," but it can do poignant/grim/tense when it wants or needs to. xp

There's more range on, say, "Walking Dead"

Justified has prob about as much range as BBad.

and let's not even bring up community

Like, yeah, sure, it's "fun," but it can do poignant/grim/tense when it wants or needs to. xp

― Simon H., Monday, February 18, 2013 11:06 AM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

This is key. Any episode can swing between very funny and grotesque or gothic or just like an action sequence at a moments notice. The foot thing in the middle of the squabbling, etc. I mean I know that's sort of a Leonard "thing" -- but that thing itself is about a diverse range.

I agree with all you've said. I don't even like "Walking Dead," but it's characters have gone more places, emotionally, then the character on "Justified." There's barely been any emotional highs and lows in "Justified" quite as on par as the rollercoasters on those other shows. It could be, as someone OTM upthread pointed out, that Raylan carries himself like he is invincible, which he essentially is. All those other shows hinge in a sort of "anything goes/anyone can die" tension. But this show? Not so much. It's like a comic book. A really, really good comic book. Recall, this is a show where Raylan is expecting a baby, and that major life even has barely played a role at all.

Maybe we're just disagreeing about the word "range." There's a lot of funny and exciting on this show. I don't get a lot of "sad" or "moving" or "makes you think" or "challenges your very notions of morality" or whatever.

Um... The last scene of last season? That was pretty damn crushing. Also, the story about the bartender a few weeks ago... He is invincible to bullets, but he has been put through the ringer emotionally.

You really thought the thing with the bartender had any emotional depth to it at all? You though he was put through the ringer? I didn't.

I don't remember the last scene of last season, tbh. The stuff on the mountain in season two had a lot of range, come to think of it. There was a lot going on there on a lot of levels. Less so last year, I want to say. And certainly not this year, which is more of a farcical adventure season. So far.

(spoiler) His father tried to kill him (/spoiler)

And the bartender wasn't about emotions, you're right, but it was definitely about pride, and it hit at just the right point. While it was never deep, she was the only thing he had going for him. Like, he could cover up that his pregnant girlfriend leaving him and his dad trying to kill him and his boss hating him, because he imediately scored a sexy blonde. And then she stole his money and left him. Had it happened in season one, then no, it would not have had any depth to it at all. Coming when it did, I thought it worked quite well.

I dunno if his father trying to kill him carried any weight for me, ironically. Considering the show more or less began with Raylan wanting his dad in jail forever.

And generally not caring about him from the start.

Bollocks to all this 'range' nonsense. It doesn't take it self too seriously does Justified and that is probably what gives it more range.

I think Raylan's emotional arc is extremely slow, but it's definitely there; he's achieved greater and greater self-awareness as the show's gone on. Remember, the series premiere ended with him breaking into his ex-wife's house, semi-confronting her current husband, then having a pretty fascinating conversation with her, where he says something like "I don't think I'm a particularly angry person" and she replies "You're the angriest person I've ever known." I think if you pay attention, the whole series has shown him - very, very slowly - realizing that she's right, and trying to get that anger under control. Whether that means shooting fewer people, or becoming a good dad (whatever that means - in his case, it probably just means "not being Arlo Givens").

Those are good observations. I guess I just read Raylan's changes as practical. He's still sort of under the watchful eye of internal affairs, he was in a lot of hot water for shooting so many people, and possibly most importantly, his impending fatherhood (barely mentioned on the show though it may be; do his co-workers know? I can't remember) has convinced him to be more careful/conservative when it comes to whipping out his gun. Though of course he is still taking ample risks, so who knows.

In the end I think his arc, as such, is a pretty familiar one: man who loves his job more than anything or anyone else. I thought one of the best bits this past ep was Raylan and the deputy volleying past menial employment, since it showed that no, this super-human was not always a marshall. I recall the world's angriest man line, but thus far the show has given little rationale for his hostility. Vs., say, his sniper vet co-worker, who seems as full of pent up rage and other bad stuff as anyone on the show, save perhaps Boyd, who is drawing from a deep well of anger/resentment/betrayal/etc. far more, well, justified than what we've seen from Raylan.

the overall arc, i have always thought, is a gradual adjustment of what raylan and boyd can justify as true and forgivable in the face of their own harsh realities. hence boyd's proposal and raylan's willingness to allow boyd to be boyd.