Actually, maybe it's this I'm getting cross with. It's not just clubbing, although this often ties in with it. I'm not rating myself above anyone, I'm no smarter than the average bear - I'm not a writer or a thinker or an artist - I'm not prizing myself any higher than anyone else when I say this. When I speak to a lot of people my age, I can tell that they possess the intelligence and skill to be able to hold an intelligent conversation about "stuff" as you say, or to have a hobby, or telling me about something they enjoy doing. Instead I get the impression that they dumb themselves down and this makes me dumb my conversation down, until all the conversation is about is "blahblahblah 'avin it blahblahblah big brother blahblahblah". It's as though people are afraid of challenging each other's minds, or scared of belittling each other...
Again I don't know where I'm going here and realise I'm coming off as an arsehole. I can't even begin to explain my disppointment with a lot of people I always rated higher. I'm gonna chill back and see how this thread goes now.
― dog latin (dog latin), Monday, 14 June 2004 13:54 (twenty years ago) link
― stevem (blueski), Monday, 14 June 2004 13:55 (twenty years ago) link
I think, to try to chrystallize it, it's the absense of music *culture* that bothers me. The mag-foldages are one facet of this.
No one levels the apolitical/apathetic slur at The Strokes/Oasis/The Happy Mondays (going back generations here), why do they get a free pass?
Well, I do and they don't! Also, as Gareth mentions, there's a very narrow definition of politics at work here. If clubbing is/was a capitalists wet dream, then going dancing every weekend is a political act, regardless of whether it dovetails with the kind of politics you would like. What you appear to be mentioning is a politics of dissent. I've tried to deal with this, but this is so boilerplate ILX stuff, and it just doesn't chime at all with my experience. We can try to theorize our way out of the fact of political disengagement, but only for so long.
I'm in no way advocating earnestness and I am one of the more frequent posters on the BB thread. I'm dragging this out a bit, but frankly today is *not* a day for saying an interest in actual IRL politics (as opposed to the politics of dancing which I don't deny but... postpone, shall we say) is narrow.
― Enrique (Enrique), Monday, 14 June 2004 13:56 (twenty years ago) link
― Ricardo (RickyT), Monday, 14 June 2004 13:57 (twenty years ago) link
― dog latin (dog latin), Monday, 14 June 2004 13:59 (twenty years ago) link
No-one made that suggestion did they? But again, if anyone on ILX mentions the past they are immediately accused of 'harking back' to 'imaginary golden ages'. It's a bit weird!
― Enrique (Enrique), Monday, 14 June 2004 13:59 (twenty years ago) link
x-post Enrique don't you think that trying to see the problems with IRL politics or the way those who have a real interest in it treat it is just as apt today as any other approach? I mean isn't as much of the problem to do with how the political engage with the apolitical or the disillusioned?
also it's the absense of music *culture* that bothers me
I think, and I know this is such a cliché, if you were out really indulging in some type of music or going to see DJs or something alot, or even frequenting record shops you'd find a culture there.
― Ronan (Ronan), Monday, 14 June 2004 14:00 (twenty years ago) link
― Matt DC (Matt DC), Monday, 14 June 2004 14:01 (twenty years ago) link
― stevem (blueski), Monday, 14 June 2004 14:04 (twenty years ago) link
― Ricardo (RickyT), Monday, 14 June 2004 14:04 (twenty years ago) link
― Enrique (Enrique), Monday, 14 June 2004 14:04 (twenty years ago) link
― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Monday, 14 June 2004 14:05 (twenty years ago) link
― Ricardo (RickyT), Monday, 14 June 2004 14:06 (twenty years ago) link
― Tim (Tim), Monday, 14 June 2004 14:07 (twenty years ago) link
― Apostrophe Catastrophe (kate), Monday, 14 June 2004 14:07 (twenty years ago) link
― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Monday, 14 June 2004 14:08 (twenty years ago) link
― Ronan (Ronan), Monday, 14 June 2004 14:08 (twenty years ago) link
― stevem (blueski), Monday, 14 June 2004 14:09 (twenty years ago) link
Er, that sentence is the first time those scare quotes went on. Are you saying that the stuff people your age are listening to was "socially conscious" rather than socially conscious?
I do think it's a shame there's a type of music they don't make much of anymore, and I am suprised at how gleeful I am that the on-paper dull and "worthy" Faithless single is in fact ace.
Of course it's not like "good" music has better odds than any other sort at being good music, it may just be that they made more of it back then. "Small town boy" AND "Don't leave me this way".
For me the thing in the 90s (which was the start of this Generation Y apathy, the rule that No Logo was the exception to) was going "Hooray, we've won! Oh fuck, that's not us!".
http://www.heavenly100.com/img/artists_pics/socialism.jpg
― Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Monday, 14 June 2004 14:11 (twenty years ago) link
I guess reacting agin this was important -- but because it wasn't laid on me (I had '88 mythology to content with -- from Shoom *and* from Chuck D) it hasn't been a great burden.
Oh I guess I dugged the MFTJG sleeve at 13. Erm, but then I liked the Manics...
― Enrique (Enrique), Monday, 14 June 2004 14:11 (twenty years ago) link
Which is what I was railing against and regardless of whether Doglatin was playing devil's advocate or not this attitude is annoyingly prevalent even among educated people who should know better. Its also only really a small step away from the Daily Mail "Television is corrupting our youth, I remember when I was a child we all gleefully read books" line.
Damn, Tim has made me feel mildly silly but I'm going to post this anyway.
― Matt DC (Matt DC), Monday, 14 June 2004 14:11 (twenty years ago) link
(xpost HAHAHA PHEAR MY MIGHTY PHALLUS oh sorry wrong thread)
― VengaDan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 14 June 2004 14:11 (twenty years ago) link
― stevem (blueski), Monday, 14 June 2004 14:14 (twenty years ago) link
― Matt DC (Matt DC), Monday, 14 June 2004 14:15 (twenty years ago) link
Enrique if you look back on the MFTJG sleeve and cringe, that strikes me as more disappointing than the idea that it was JUST a naive statement to be discounted now
― stevem (blueski), Monday, 14 June 2004 14:16 (twenty years ago) link
― Enrique (Enrique), Monday, 14 June 2004 14:16 (twenty years ago) link
― stevem (blueski), Monday, 14 June 2004 14:17 (twenty years ago) link
The thing is, the sense of "we've won" is never going to be anything but a false dawn because there is never a victory in life as regards anything, it's an ongoing series of problems/solutions.
― Ronan (Ronan), Monday, 14 June 2004 14:19 (twenty years ago) link
How's he doing the Jamaica rap? He's from just south of the Watford GapHe gives us stick about the north/south divide'cause they got the jobs Yeah, but we got the side
That's some heavy shit there, people.
― Matt DC (Matt DC), Monday, 14 June 2004 14:19 (twenty years ago) link
most unfortunate considering they were thrown at him on one occasion. actually maybe THIS was why all along...'racialist? why no your honour i'm just a little hard of hearing!'
― stevem (blueski), Monday, 14 June 2004 14:21 (twenty years ago) link
I cringe in the same way I cringe at 'Gold Agin the Soul', on aesthetic grounds which are also political. Liam 'n' co are not very axiomatic of what's happened to rave culture BUT they aren't quite the idealists any more, or if they are it's in an entirely different way.
― Enrique (Enrique), Monday, 14 June 2004 14:24 (twenty years ago) link
― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Monday, 14 June 2004 14:36 (twenty years ago) link
― stevem (blueski), Monday, 14 June 2004 14:37 (twenty years ago) link
I think the fact that the anti-Bush coalition is all over the place is overshadowing the fact that the pro-Bush coalition is equally all over the place. If the War on Terror ended tomorrow, there'd be a lot of "hang on, why are we supporting this guy again?". But the WoT is designed to be without end... (puts on tin-foil hat)
― Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Monday, 14 June 2004 14:39 (twenty years ago) link
― Ed (dali), Monday, 14 June 2004 15:26 (twenty years ago) link
― dog latin (dog latin), Sunday, 20 June 2004 10:29 (twenty years ago) link
― N. (nickdastoor), Sunday, 20 June 2004 10:53 (twenty years ago) link
― charltonlido (gareth), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 09:57 (twenty years ago) link
― charltonlido (gareth), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 09:58 (twenty years ago) link
sorry, this is the one i was looking for. i dont like the attitudes expressed in this thread, and i think its a shadow that hangs over this one, and others, also
― charltonlido (gareth), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 10:42 (twenty years ago) link
― splooge (thesplooge), Monday, 17 January 2005 18:57 (nineteen years ago) link
― :| (....), Monday, 17 January 2005 20:15 (nineteen years ago) link
Not as good as the "bag of chips" comment though. I love it when people remind me of things I should never have forgotten.
― Matt DC (Matt DC), Monday, 17 January 2005 20:54 (nineteen years ago) link
― John (jdahlem), Monday, 17 January 2005 21:03 (nineteen years ago) link
― dog latin (dog latin), Monday, 17 January 2005 22:15 (nineteen years ago) link
― MY FAVOURITE LIGHTER IS CHEESEBURGER (trigonalmayhem), Monday, 17 January 2005 22:30 (nineteen years ago) link
― MY FAVOURITE LIGHTER IS CHEESEBURGER (trigonalmayhem), Monday, 17 January 2005 22:31 (nineteen years ago) link
― MY FAVOURITE LIGHTER IS CHEESEBURGER (trigonalmayhem), Monday, 17 January 2005 22:32 (nineteen years ago) link