2008 Primaries Thread 2: THE QUICKENING

But this is special, "self-glory," "empty rhetoric" Kool-Aid.

(Damn, too many commas).

FLAVOR aid.

NOT Kool aid.

Hey, is there an election happening this year?

FLAVOR aid.

NOT Kool aid.

-- Mackro Mackro, Wednesday, February 13, 2008 3:14 PM (Wednesday, February 13, 2008 3:14 PM) Bookmark Link

Yeah, yeah,yeah, and Meredith Hunter wasn't really stabbed during "Under My THumb", not "Sympathy for the Devil".

Is now the right time for me to make my "Okay now yr getting REALLY racial" joke?

By that measure, it should give us pause that Obama seems to be weakest in the demographic that was key to Bush's victories in '00 and '04.

o. nate

Yeah. Then again, we can take consolation from the fact that McCain is similarly weak among at least one of Bush's key demographics.

Is now the right time for me to make my "Okay now yr getting REALLY racial" joke?

-- HI DERE, Wednesday, February 13, 2008 3:18 PM (Wednesday, February 13, 2008 3:18 PM) Bookmark Link

Yes. Hopefully it'll be funnier than the Penn Jillette joke.

Though I have to say that cancer is funnier than the Penn Jillette joke.

who wants to start a thread for all the NON-prez elections this year?

It isn't. It was an "oh, all black people drink Kool-Aid??????? thatsracist.gif" lowball.

Rasmussen also has Obama ahead for the first time nationally.

http://rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/election_20082/daily_presidential_tracking_polling_history

I think, in hindsight, today will be considered the tipping point in the dem primary race

(omg do you think obama has read gladwell? lol j/k)

Then again, we can take consolation from the fact that McCain is similarly weak among at least one of Bush's key demographics

Sorry if I'm being dense, but what demographic is that?

evangelicals? republicans?

The former is what I meant.

people w/ the last name "bush?"

xp

evangelicals?

Interesting point - but I've seen little evidence that Obama, with his social positions which are considerably more liberal than McCain's, would be able to attract many of them.

the goal is to get them to stay home

not liking David Brooks doesn't mean he's wrong. Ruy Teixeira's saying comforting things doesn't mean he's right.

the fact that Hillary beats Obama among white working class voters in Dem primaries does not necessarily mean that she is ultimately the better candidate to win their votes, and not just because of their trade voting records. such voters are, for instance, less mediated than those carefree, wine-drinking elites who love Barack. they've known and liked Hillary for years and years. that they have to meet the new guy doesn't mean that they're going to vote GOP.

black voters might be more inclined to vote barack, of course, and it took some distancing by bill to push them over, but they've obviously gone huge for obama once they realized they didn't have to be on the clintons' side.

It isn't. It was an "oh, all black people drink Kool-Aid??????? thatsracist.gif" lowball.

Only the blacks in Guyana.

Guyana, Mississippi!

"This is not Bill Clinton's backyard or his plantation."

http://newbrooklynnetwork.typepad.com/brooklyn_ron/2008/02/bill-perkins-sa.html

via Ben Smith:

"First Latina President"

Ken Vogel spots those words in a sign on stage at Clinton's event in Robstown, Texas.

"first interracial co-presidency" am i right?

"Hillary is our friend"

the goal is to get them to stay home

ostensibly by likening McCain's stated positions to Obama's (both against Gay Marriage amendment, pro-choice, pro-stem cell, etc.)

the goal is to get them to stay home

-- Shakey

No joke. 1000% OTM. Hopefully, that'll be McCain's great gift to this election.

McCain is pro-life.

pro-choice

Um, McCain's pro-life.

http://thinkprogress.org/2006/11/19/mccain-abortion/

xpost

Yes, but also pro stem-cell, which to an evangelical is not pro-life at all. (You know, because they're all fucking idiots.)

Robstown, Texas.

wauuu what a campaign stop

In 1999, the “moderate” version of John McCain said that overturning Roe v. Wade would be dangerous for women and he would not support it, even in “the long term.”

flip-flop, etc

here comes the substance

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2008/02/obama-takes-it.html
http://www.thewashingtonnote.com/archives/002855.php

infrastructure is way up there on my list of what gubmint should do in a positive sense

i dont think that obama is trying to get them to stay home, i bet hes trying to get a decent part of the evangelical vote (as much as a pro choice dem can - which i bet is more than most "fuck red states dude!!! did u know they have lower IQs???" liberals would figure)

Yes, but also pro stem-cell, which to an evangelical is not pro-life at all. (You know, because they're all fucking idiots.)

there's some expectation that he's gonna say we can develop stem cells in the lab now, so forget about the fetuses

Misperceptions About McCain's Abortion Stance

i dont think that obama is trying to get them to stay home, i bet hes trying to get a decent part of the evangelical vote

True enough. But overall, the more Evangelicals sit this one out, the better off Democrats are.

The funny thing is that, from what I understand, Obama has as -- if not more -- detailed a set of policy papers as any other remaining candidate.
I mean, what "substance" have you heard in John McCain's speeches, other than "We must be vigilent against terrorists and support our military and cut taxes" and lots of other fairly empty platitudes.

I think the "Obama lacks substance" criticism is really just a shallow way of trying to both acknowledge and mitigate Obama's great strength as a stump speaker. See, e.g., the last Democratic debate. Obama's plenty substantive.

(xp)

its more like the right covering their ass cuz they haven't bothered to dig up any dirt on him - they exhausted the majority of the primary cycle gearing up against Hillary

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Don't you know who I am?!

http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1712834,00.html

want to reiterate i really like this thread and i dont get why some folks are all "i vowed not to read it." even when the argument is stupid it brings together some good insights and serves pretty well as a one stop shop for election updates/perspectives both internal and outside. Also, liveblogging the debates was a riot

Obama's got the papers, if anyone wants to see them. But while campaigning he doesn't need to be specific; every winner since FDR doesn't do much more than articulate principles instead of policy.

his campaign needs to kill this 'soaring rhetoric no substance' before it becomes Truth.

Looks like he did that this afternoon, if you follow the link to the GM speech.

oh i know he's showing substance, but if the charge is repeated ad nauseam it's still gonna stick.

deej i hope you're not including me in that. I very much enjoy this thread, despite myself.

he just needs to preface his policy talk more like he did there: "i'm gonna dig into it here folks sorry no applause lines".

this is a bit off topic, and i don't know what thread would be more relevant, but i got to axe bill clinton a question on a conference call today about free trade, so yay for college shit.