i'm not even sure it's relevant here. i don't know about any radical free information principle in traditional marxism.
― Mordy , Tuesday, 18 June 2013 15:15 (eleven years ago) link
what 'enemy' is comforted by talking about the g-20 spying?
funny enough acc to the guardian the spying was kind of old-timey: fake internet cafes!
The same document also refers to GCHQ, MI6 and others setting up internet cafes which "were able to extract key logging info, providing creds for delegates, meaning we have sustained intelligence options against them even after conference has finished". This appears to be a reference to acquiring delegates' online login details.
i'm sure the british are pissed but it's not treason to talk about this.
― goole, Tuesday, 18 June 2013 15:16 (eleven years ago) link
sorry, I don't consider "telling countries that already know we are spying on them about a specific spying incident" to occupy the same moral plane as "taking up arms against the United States government."
― This amigurumi Jamaican octopus is ready to chill with you (Phil D.), Tuesday, 18 June 2013 15:17 (eleven years ago) link
i don't know why you're so hung up on 'enemy.' i consider pollard's actions treasonous and he was supplying information to an 'ally.' xp
― Mordy , Tuesday, 18 June 2013 15:17 (eleven years ago) link
i'm hung up on it because it's the language of the law
― goole, Tuesday, 18 June 2013 15:18 (eleven years ago) link
i think mordechai vanunu was definitely a traitor to his country (and he was even convicted of treason iirc!), and he just leaked to the UK press. not to a specific enemy of israel.
― Mordy , Tuesday, 18 June 2013 15:18 (eleven years ago) link
ok, but i'm not making strict arguments about the US legal code. i don't think the US can or should prosecute snowden under the treason act. i still think his actions may be treasonous.
― Mordy , Tuesday, 18 June 2013 15:19 (eleven years ago) link
just in a vaguely traitory hates his mother nation and wants his countrymen to die kind of a way
― goole, Tuesday, 18 June 2013 15:21 (eleven years ago) link
well i can't speak to his motivations. i'm sure he's very idealistic and thinks he is doing the right thing.
― Mordy , Tuesday, 18 June 2013 15:22 (eleven years ago) link
But he's really a filthy traitor.
― This amigurumi Jamaican octopus is ready to chill with you (Phil D.), Tuesday, 18 June 2013 15:24 (eleven years ago) link
Anyway, all hail the Rodinia!
i'm sure the rosenbergs had idealistic motivations as well
― Mordy , Tuesday, 18 June 2013 15:25 (eleven years ago) link
Sure. They wanted Meryl Streep to play Ethel.
― A deeper shade of lol (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 18 June 2013 15:27 (eleven years ago) link
He was subsequently lured to Italy by a Mossad agent, where he was drugged and abducted by Israeli intelligence agents.[4] He was transported to Israel and ultimately convicted in a trial that was held behind closed doors.[4]
cool country
― look at my watch/I'm in the club and everyone's looking at me/fuck th (k3vin k.), Tuesday, 18 June 2013 15:27 (eleven years ago) link
what if we compromised and decided this was a little bit treason and a little bit espionage
― iatee, Tuesday, 18 June 2013 15:28 (eleven years ago) link
vanunu is lucky he wasn't executed xp
― Mordy , Tuesday, 18 June 2013 15:28 (eleven years ago) link
L-R: Treason, espionage
http://www.bionicdisco.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/DonnyMarie_Show_Jan_1978.jpg
― This amigurumi Jamaican octopus is ready to chill with you (Phil D.), Tuesday, 18 June 2013 15:29 (eleven years ago) link
he committed treason against the dystopian 2013 america by aiding the imaginary future america he wants to create
― iatee, Tuesday, 18 June 2013 15:33 (eleven years ago) link
anyone who tries to change america is kinda committing treason when you look at it like that
― iatee, Tuesday, 18 June 2013 15:34 (eleven years ago) link
― A deeper shade of lol (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 18 June 2013 15:36 (eleven years ago) link
― Mordy , Tuesday, June 18, 2013 10:25 AM (9 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
yes it was marxism
― goole, Tuesday, 18 June 2013 15:37 (eleven years ago) link
Proverbs 16:2 "All the ways of a man [are] clean in his own eyes; but the LORD weigheth the spirits."
― Mordy , Tuesday, 18 June 2013 15:39 (eleven years ago) link
can we talk about how hilarious it is that one of the examples they are using to show that this program is working is that it averted an attack on the NYSE
"We had quite a bit of trouble deciphering the phone calls at first."
http://ifanboy.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/dark-knight-rises-stock-exchange.jpg
― This amigurumi Jamaican octopus is ready to chill with you (Phil D.), Tuesday, 18 June 2013 16:00 (eleven years ago) link
they see me snowdenthey hatinpatrollin they tryna catch me speakin treason
― steening in your HOOSless carriage (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Tuesday, 18 June 2013 16:00 (eleven years ago) link
i assume the G-20 leak is one of the things that barton gillman refused to publish. i wonder what other information he has (he might literally have lists of names).
― Mordy , Tuesday, 18 June 2013 16:04 (eleven years ago) link
FedSmith.com Users Say Snowden is a TraitorIs Edward Snowden a hero or a traitor for leaking the information about the NSA? FedSmith.com users say he is a traitor in our recent survey.
― curmudgeon, Tuesday, 18 June 2013 16:06 (eleven years ago) link
He is a hero in that he has exposed the inappropriateness of having contractors do the work that federal employees should do. He is a traitor because he handled it inappropriately.
lol
― steening in your HOOSless carriage (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Tuesday, 18 June 2013 16:08 (eleven years ago) link
I guess if we are at war with Terror, and Terror is fear of the the unknown, and this guy made is so that there is less that is unknown to us, then yes in some way he is threatening our ability to be Terrorized. So he's the opposite of a traitor.
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Tuesday, 18 June 2013 16:10 (eleven years ago) link
the NSA FISA disclosures were technically legal but that doesn't mean that they weren't a violation against the american public.
informing the american public about secret policies they have a clear interest in knowing about is a 'violation against them'?
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Tuesday, 18 June 2013 19:29 (eleven years ago) link
always hilarious to see liberals eagerly standing up for the espionage act, passed by notable racist warmonger woodrow wilson largely as an excuse to silence domestic opposition and lock up antiwar radicals.
Have there been photos of these fake G20 internet cafes?
― lols lane (Eazy), Tuesday, 18 June 2013 19:41 (eleven years ago) link
http://www.ronsaari.com/stockImages/diners/tomsRestaurant1.jpg
― iatee, Tuesday, 18 June 2013 19:48 (eleven years ago) link
the fake restaurants thing is like something baudrillard would have made up blows my mind
― steening in your HOOSless carriage (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Tuesday, 18 June 2013 19:53 (eleven years ago) link
little did they know that they were spying on fake diplomats
― iatee, Tuesday, 18 June 2013 19:54 (eleven years ago) link
read my post immediately after the one you quoted. i clarified.
― Mordy , Tuesday, 18 June 2013 20:02 (eleven years ago) link
oops! sorry, missed that.
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Tuesday, 18 June 2013 20:47 (eleven years ago) link
http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/elements/2013/06/why-monopolies-make-spying-easier.html
― iatee, Wednesday, 19 June 2013 02:52 (eleven years ago) link
http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/dana-milbank-congress-has-become-a-rubber-stamp-for-the-nsa/2013/06/18/eb9ef4ee-d861-11e2-a9f2-42ee3912ae0e_story.html?hpid=z2
The only non-love-fest questions at the hearing:
Rep. Jan Schakowsky (D-Ill.), (D-Ill.), who said the officials would have been better off providing information about the program “up front,” asked whether their newfound transparency would include the public release, with redactions, of secret court opinions related to the surveillance programs.
“It’s been a very difficult task,” was Litt’s noncommittal response.
Rep. Adam Schiff (D-Calif.) asked how soon Litt would have an answer on declassifying the opinions.
“I’m hesitant to answer any question that begins ‘how soon,’ ” Litt said.
Schiff, in the minority of lawmakers challenging the witnesses, suggested that the NSA might want to get the phone “metadata” from the telecommunications providers on a case-by-case basis rather than amass all the data for all Americans.
“The concern is speed in crisis,” Alexander told him.
Schiff wasn’t persuaded. “I think that the American people may be much more comfortable with the telecommunications companies retaining those business records,” he said. As for the intelligence officials’ boasts about self-supervision, Schiff added, “all those internal checks are valuable, but they’re still internal checks.”
― curmudgeon, Wednesday, 19 June 2013 15:44 (eleven years ago) link
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/us-charges-snowden-with-espionage/2013/06/21/507497d8-dab1-11e2-a016-92547bf094cc_story.html
― Mordy , Friday, 21 June 2013 23:28 (eleven years ago) link
what can one say, but, welp
― goole, Saturday, 22 June 2013 02:26 (eleven years ago) link
http://i.guim.co.uk/n/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2013/6/21/1371831337646/Edward-Snowden-composite--009.jpghttp://i.guim.co.uk/n/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2013/6/21/1371831337646/Edward-Snowden-composite--009.jpghttp://i.guim.co.uk/n/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2013/6/21/1371831337646/Edward-Snowden-composite--009.jpg
― daft on the causes of punk (schlump), Saturday, 22 June 2013 03:39 (eleven years ago) link
yo dawg we heard you like espionage so we charged you with espionage after hiring you to perform espionage
― steening in your HOOSless carriage (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Saturday, 22 June 2013 08:07 (eleven years ago) link
if you knew this is Bam's SEVENTH Espionage Act prosecution, raise yr hand. (Wilson through Dubya: 3.)
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/jun/22/snowden-espionage-charges
― ballin' from Maine to Mexico (Dr Morbius), Saturday, 22 June 2013 12:48 (eleven years ago) link
I don't think Snowden should be charged, but either you or Greenwald are trying to be misleading here, because he says something very specific:
Prior to Barack Obama's inauguration, there were a grand total of three prosecutions of leakers under the Espionage Act
Note he's confining that statement to "leakers," however he's defining that, but either he -- or, I think, you -- are trying to imply that only three PEOPLE have been prosecuted under the Espionage Act, since 1917, which is . . . not true.
― This amigurumi Jamaican octopus is ready to chill with you (Phil D.), Saturday, 22 June 2013 13:33 (eleven years ago) link
nope, just my mistranscription, my fault
― ballin' from Maine to Mexico (Dr Morbius), Saturday, 22 June 2013 13:46 (eleven years ago) link
no access to Wiki now, but wasn't Eugene Debs convicted under the EA?
― A deeper shade of lol (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 22 June 2013 13:50 (eleven years ago) link
yes -- the sedition act of 1918 was actually an amendment to the espionage act, so initially it was used almost entirely against antiwar activists (AFAIK no actual german spies were ever caught and convicted under the act.)
no one was successfully prosecuted for leaking to the press until this guy, in 1985: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_Loring_Morison
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Saturday, 22 June 2013 19:21 (eleven years ago) link
Not sure if this is the thread for it, but uhm... uh oh...
In an email sent hours before his death in a single-car L.A. crash, journalist Michael Hastings wrote that his “close friends and associates” were being interviewed by the FBI and he was going to “go off the radar for a bit.”According to the email, sent to KTLA, Hastings wrote he was working on a “big story” and was going to disappear. He told his colleagues that if the FBI came to interview them, they should have legal counsel present.
According to the email, sent to KTLA, Hastings wrote he was working on a “big story” and was going to disappear. He told his colleagues that if the FBI came to interview them, they should have legal counsel present.
― Le Bateau Ivre, Saturday, 22 June 2013 20:07 (eleven years ago) link
remember this?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RNdW2V5V8W4
― A deeper shade of lol (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 22 June 2013 20:20 (eleven years ago) link
Danny Casolaro, yes defo. Not seem the dramatic re-enacted video though.
― Le Bateau Ivre, Saturday, 22 June 2013 21:15 (eleven years ago) link