Do you think things are going to get better or worse?

ryan, that's a good quote. I really like Kierkegaard, even though I'm not a theist.

Strangely, my reading of Kierkegaard always motivated me and gave me reasons not to believe in God. I guess it's the whole aspect of 'leap of faith'.

Having said that, this quote by him taught me to enjoy the 'little things' in life and live scientifically (it's from Fear and Trembling, which contributed to my aforementioned conclusion):

"If there were no eternal consciousness in a man, if at the bottom of everything there were only a wild ferment, a power that twisting in dark passions produced everything great or inconsequential; if an unfathomable, insatiable emptiness lay hid beneath everything, what would life be but despair?"

I'm not certain of it, but I assume that my interpretation of him (and Wiener's interpretation) was very uncommon amongst most circles at one point in history. Then came CS Lewis, which is probably close to his opposite (whilst still being a theist, of course).

Not really related to this thread, but: you really can get loads more out of Kierkegaard then 'theology'. You don't need to be a 'theist' to enjoy and appreciate his work. Just saying.

in my case I just know it's gonna get worse because I keep getting sicker and feeling sicker

But to answer the thread's question: worse. Things always get worse as time passes. You enter this world without a care in the world, and end up leaving this world by death (not a great thing in itself) with loads of cares, worries, fears, love, relations, loss, loathing etc. Getting older means life is definitely getting worse, for me.

But you are handed some tools every now and then along the way to dealwithit.jpg. Mastering those seems key. I know others are fab at that, mastering those tools, whereas I am shit at it. I will always be a glass half empty person, just the way I am. And I have experienced things getting worse, more difficult, more painful: such is life, for me. But I've accepted it, too. It is ok.

I anticipate that some things in my life and in the world at large will get much better, but others will get worse.

This question is, to me, asking "is food good for you?"

pringles are

my man

Man, I'm pretty happy the way things are right now. So in a way, things are more likely to get worse than better, because I can imagine way more things that would make things worse than better. But I also can realistically see some already-good things getting even better, so...

I do think the capacity to believe that things can or will get better is pretty important to getting up every day, so I guess I'll just keep believing that until some inevitable decline renders the whole discussion pointless.

better for me, worse for you

zero sum game right there

We are swimming upstream against a great torrent of disorganization, which tends to reduce everything to the heat death of equilibrium and sameness

Wouldn't equilibrium/sameness be the ultimate in organization/order? Maybe it's just me but the idea of the ultimate heat death ending of the universe seems to be working AWAY from chaos and TOWARDS and ultimate harmony. Which is pretty cool if you prefer harmony over chaos.

i don't know if it makes sense to prefer harmony to chaos or vice versa. total harmony and total chaos both seem synonymous with death, whereas life, or experience, seems to be built on the dialectic between repetition and spontanaeity.

the tendency of chaotic systems (weather, plate tectonics, vegetation growth, Everything) to form imperfect fractals, or to sort of circle around a "strange attractor" fractal state into which the system never entirely settles but which it's always, like, romancing, always kinda cheers me up w the idea that it's in chaos that you find the shadow of the deepest order. it's enough to make me a theist! nothing to do w my life getting better, of course; my destruction will just be part of the pretty shape. but still.

(dr sattler, i refuse to believe that you are unfamiliar with the concept of attraction.)

Have had a sufficiently comfortable and 'privileged' upbringing that as I embark into the "real world", I can't help but think that things can only get worse from here on in, whichever way I play it.

:-(

there's a macro trend towards awesome
Even our shitty movies lay waste to shitty movies of past re: pacific rim
in future global warming will be seen as a shitty 00s thing like Michael bay that we will somehow be nostalgic for.

Eh, that's the way the game is played tho right? My working class grandfather works his ass off so his son can get to university (based solely on the merit of being a smart guy who worked himself to the bone in a shitty school that never rewarded effort or intelligence), he goes off and gets a high-flying, high-paying job that eats him alive and finally his son (i.e. me) throws it all in their faces by getting an Eng Lit degree that no one will touch with a bargepole, and informing them that I'd sooner bite my own cock off than work 9-5 for the rest of my life in a job I don't particularly enjoy.

But all this is venting and by the by. Basicly things will get worse before they get better, of this there is no doubt

Really it's all in your mind. There is a better and there is a worse and both are possible and it's up to you to decide which one is defining the current moment.

Difficult otm re: chaotic systems. Whenever I read about that stuff it seems like science chipping away at the cookie crust towards a creamy center of mysticism.

Have had a sufficiently comfortable and 'privileged' upbringing that as I embark into the "real world", I can't help but think that things can only get worse from here on in, whichever way I play it.

― Third Rate Zoo Keepers With Tenth Rate Minds (Windsor Davies),

opposite :-D

Fuck you very much Deems. shall comfort myself in the face of your taunting with that old idealistic dream that i am in fact down to earth enough to survive modrn lyfe without a safety net. this is of course impossible

i was taunting u with my terrible upbringing tbf

This is fair, when ur championing authenticity over legitimate living standards then you know you're spending too much time on the internet

Not meant to imply that you didn't grow up w/ legitimate living standards btw, not sure any drunekn faux pas I can come up with could surpass that

Merely meant to castigate my own hopelessly worrisome position on all this

idk tbh maybe let it rest til tomorrow and we'll untangle it then

A sound stratagem, let's let that lie

SO YOU DO THINK THINGS WILL BE BETTER THEN

win

the tendency of chaotic systems (weather, plate tectonics, vegetation growth, Everything) to form imperfect fractals, or to sort of circle around a "strange attractor" fractal state into which the system never entirely settles but which it's always, like, romancing, always kinda cheers me up w the idea that it's in chaos that you find the shadow of the deepest order. it's enough to make me a theist! nothing to do w my life getting better, of course; my destruction will just be part of the pretty shape. but still.

I've always been drawn to this solace as well. it's certainly a kind of mystical stance, in some ways. Emerson is the king of it, to the point of self-abnegation:

So when a man is the victim of his fate, has sciatica in his loins, and cramp in his mind; a club-foot and a club in his wit; a sour face, and a selfish temper; a strut in his gait, and a conceit in his affection; or is ground to powder by the vice of his race; he is to rally on his relation to the Universe, which his ruin benefits. Leaving the daemon who suffers, he is to take sides with the Deity who secures universal benefit by his pain.

hard to answer - for me personally i don't know. it seems a foolish thing to think about. except like, things will get better when i drink this cup of tea or after i finish work tomorrow.

definitely better

wow @ that emerson quote. i need to read more emerson.

it's from "Fate"--a very moving and vital essay, still.

ty

In a lot of bad situations acceptance is the key. You need to accept that bad times are ahead and you absolutely have to become strong enough to deal with them. Things not getting better is not a viable option. I know it sounds a bit Dudley Do-Right but I have been running this shit through my head for the last year, since my wife became ill.

it's from "Fate"--a very moving and vital essay, still.

thanks for that too. Here it is: http://www.emersoncentral.com/fate.htm

emerson is a bad motherfucker, yall need to get familiar

after three years of being sick I have finally forgotten what it feels like to be healthy, so things are getting better I guess.

1 day left people

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

Worse :(

mind says better, heart says worse

I think worse, too, as I mentioned earlier. And I feel perfectly ok by saying so. Yet when someone else says it with sincerity, like Tera here, I feel a tug at the heart strings.... Just wish you all a 'better'.

Getting older is one of the biggest reasons for me to say worse. I don't care for age as a number, but I see nor experience any benefits. Sure, teenage angst is a thing of the past, but it sure wasn't followed up by a calm, or gentler, more peaceful life. Everything gets harder, more complicated with age, in my experience. Jobs, money, relations, work, seeing a new youth and generation arise I will slowly lose touch with.
I gain bad memories and regret every year, my perfectionism gets worse, and it is a struggle at times to keep up with life's pace. There are good memories, occurrences, for sure, but they don't outweigh the bad ones. I don't believe in a god,I don't believe life has any goal or meaning. It is pure chance. Which is something quite profound in itself, but quite mundane all the same.

I am not depressed (any more), I enjoy things, I do my best, and would say I am doing moderately ok. But I'm a pessimist, a sceptic, a struggler, a nihilist. I thought I would shake it off after my teenage years, that it was just a flight, a pose, a flaw that could be overcome. It wasn't. Life is such a wonderful cosmic fluke, best roller coaster ride ever, something I can definitely enjoy. But it remains so so.

I am just not that good at being a human being, I think. Which is unfortunate, since I am one. I am enjoying the ride so far, sometimes, but have little hope of things getting better, as every single thing has gotten worse or more difficult. And I am a lol adult.

Tl;dr: tmi.

death is an illusion, so is suffering. and i have a lot of faith in the inherent goodness of humanity. so yeah, better all the way.

death and suffering are not illusions.

I honestly admire your stance on this. But can you explain why 'death is an illusion'? Do you mean that from a religious pov, believing in reincarnation? Or in a metaphysical way?

Because for me, death is pretty much the opposite of illusion. It is all too real.

Xp

There have been greet surprises in my life, but there are other aspects of my life things have been on a serious decline and just don't see it all improving.

*great

sorry guys i didn't want this thread to be a bummer

treeship voted several dozen times

the past is dead, the past is dead, the past is dead....

I feel like things are better already

well did they

hope for fred west, plan for fred durst

― mundane peaceable username (darraghmac), Monday, 22 July 2013 14:03 (three years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink