Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. -- Marvel meets Joss Whedon meets...TV!

i've gone from impatiently waiting for comic book movies to fall out of fashion for good to pretty much completely supporting the marvel cinematic empire/being disappointed the SHIELD sucks

i'm not sure why

Bolt the door, Varg is loose! And he has access to Asgardian weaponry!

This week's episode was fun. Still not even close to being essential viewing, but it's getting fractionally better with each episode. Getting somewhat worried that the ''dark secret' quotient is rising every time we learn something new about a character's background, though. Does everyone on the team reallyneed to be tormented by their past?

head desking about this "did I fall asleep" reference to Dollhouse

When Coulson said that, my wife and I replied "For a little while" in perfect synchronization.

Does everyone on the team reallyneed to be tormented by their past?

You have seen Joss Whedon shows before?

With a few exceptions, nearly every Marvel hero is tormented by their past. That's kind of their thing.

trying to think of one who isn't... Kitty Pride? Wasp? a couple of the Young Avengers maybe?

Colossus. Banshee.
I guess cap lost bucky.

Banshee's wife died and he had a daughter he never knew about!

Captain America was frozen in ice for decades, it's one of his defining characteristics!

Didn't Colossus have a dead brother who turned out to be alive and evil?

yep, also his sister was kidnapped by demons and raised to be a queen in Hell

Cecilia Reyes wasn't tormented by her past; she was tormented by her present

I don't think Synch was tormented by his past...

Yeah, clearly it's a Marvel thing - it's just so obvious that every week they set aside 90 seconds to inelegantly seed another clue to some as-yet-unrevealed trauma. It's straight-up Claremont, I suppose.

All of the current marquee Avengers have angst-ridden pasts except mmmmmmaybe Thor and arguably Hulk (who IIRC didn't get angsty until he became the Hulk)? I don't know the extent of his Marvel backstory beyond his rivalry with Loki) Admittedly Cap's is "I'm a man out of time"-derived as opposed to being an enemy agent (Black Widow), a criminal (Hawkeye) or a self-serving alcoholic (Iron Man).

Yeah, Hulk itself has no demons - it is the demon. Thor, not very haunted. Fantastic Four, are they haunted by demons?

Thing was played as morose for a good long while because he hated how he looked but I don't think he (or any of the rest of the F4) had demons before the accdent

I think Reed felt some guilt about not being able to keep Doom from blowing his own face off.

Marvel recently added some experiences with antisemitism to Kitty Pryde's pre-X youth, didn't they?

Banshee's wife died and he had a daughter he never knew about!

Captain America was frozen in ice for decades, it's one of his defining characteristics!

Didn't Colossus have a dead brother who turned out to be alive and evil?

all this stuff isn't intrinsic to the character, it's development as they went!
and yeah, lots to blame claremont for

also moore, quite frankly

oh come on, you really can't blame Claremont for Scott Summers' orphaning, or Spiderman's Uncle Ben, or Hawkeye/Quicksilver/Scarlet Witch/insert random Avenger who started out as a villain here, or Hank Pym's descent into madness and abuse, etc etc etc etc; all of this stuff is intrinsic to the Marvel storytelling style and existed before either Claremont or Moore came onto the scene

pretending captain america pre-1960s was the same character as the modern one and the modern Marvel storytelling style is kind of disingenuous

superman's parents are dead, batman's parents are dead, tarzan's parents are dead... this isn't marvel, it's pulp history. marvel of the lee/ditko era (less so kirby i guess as his worldview was more about wide open vistas to the stars) was all about teen angst and there's been several multiyear periods where comics have wallowed in that mud. for people our age (looking right at you dan) claremont was the guy that did the most thought-balloony "but what if she finds out my TERRIBLE SECRET" bullshit that damaged the current gen writers

acting like i'm arguing with you about cap is kind of disingenuous btw

While we're on the subject of TERRIBLE SECRETS: Skye's going to find out SHIELD agents killed her parents, right?

Her father is Nick Fury iirc

He had her taken to an orphanage because he was sick and tired of these motherfuckin' babies on this motherfuckin' helicarrier

Man, I wish my name was Skye Fury. I'd be such a badass.

badass

this article about supes in context of this conversation is right on:
http://comicsalliance.com/superman-a-celebration-of-75-years-review-dc/
http://wac.450f.edgecastcdn.net/80450F/comicsalliance.com/files/2013/11/Superman09.jpg

Of course. Because it’s about how something that used to be silly and fun is actually dark and psychologically traumatizing. Because we wouldn’t want anyone to come away from this celebration of Superman thinking that anything about Superman or his foes was silly in any respect. Everything is, AND ALWAYS WAS, Very Very Serious, so you don’t have to be embarrassed about liking Superman.

Chris Sims is usually otm, and that is a good article. I think it definitely applies more to DC's current approach than Marvel's, though - the sadface factor is way higher in Man of Steel and the Nolan Batman movies than anything Marvel Studios have produced so far.

Tarzan was a haunted motherfucker.

that's kinda the point: tough backstory = grim and gritty is a more modern perspective
vast oversimplification but it's easy to see where wwii vets wanted tough backstories = happy endings

Forks, can you expand a bit on what you're getting at here? I'm not sure I understand what you're saying - that SHIELD is aiming for 'grim and gritty'?

this isn't marvel, it's pulp history

forks OTM

no way in hell am I watching this show

I think the point wasn't that the show is grim n' gritty (because no) but rather that all of the characters have tortured moments in their past that drive who they are. It's just that we have yet to see flashbacks to before Fitz & Simmons were freed from the Congolese death camp where they grew up.

what i'm getting at is more in response to the question "which marvel characters DON'T have troubled backstories" than anything about the series, so my bad for the derail. I watched the first ep of this show, didn't like it and have been tivoing in the hope that word is that eventually
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=klAMteHP4eY

The show is totally fun and enjoyable. I can only really find fault in the fact that, while tying fairly extensively into the Marvel film universe, it only operates on the extreme outer fringes of the Marvel Universe proper (pre-Graviton Graviton, Victoria Hand, and Jasper Sitwell are among the highest-profile MU cameos thus far. I mean, come on.).

(I've been reading Marvel stuff since I could read and I barely know who those people are.)

So Coulson is basically a zombie? Or something? And instead of asking for answers from the man who had them and was willing - eager, even - to talk, Coulson just bailed like it was nbd? That was... disappointing.

Haven't see newest ep, did they reveal he is NOT one of these http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_Model_Decoy

Nope, he ain't an LMD. The explanation is both weirder and more pedestrian than that.

Yeah, I think the most recent ep is a good place to jump ship. They built up to something unsatisfactory as usual and everything feels wrapped up so I don't feel the need to find out about anything. Save what's his face who's now lost a leg. But who cares. zzzz. Bye, show.

I was just about to ask if this show has finally started getting good, and it sounds like the opposite.
Oh well, they can't all be winners.

is it true that he escapes captivity by way of giant tweezers he had on his person for some reason?

100‰ true, sadly.

afaic this show just exists now for me to watch the first 30 minutes going 'that Skye girl is a babe' and then get bored in time to change the channel for Brooklyn Nine-Nine

Whatshisface who's now lost a leg is going to become Dethlok, surely?

aw don't make me want to watch this now

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/5/54/Dethklokband.PNG/300px-Dethklokband.PNG

ok if they bring in dethlok I may have no choice but to watch. I'm sure marvel is doling out any actual proper MU characters with maximum stinginess.